VTTW Board Index

Will return for 2013 with a new defensive coordinator and a few defensive position coaches.

No hard evidence, just piecing together the rumors.

I just don't see it.  I saw speculation that Hart may resign if Cheek blocks a coaching change. 

I also now believe Gruden definitely isn't coming.

I'm going to hold my tongue here until something happens (or doesn't).  But Dooley and Joker Phillips both started their HC jobs at the same time, and Phillips just got canned.  If Kentucky (KENTUCKY!) has higher expectations for their football coach than we do...well, that says a lot. :banghead:

I think there is a lot of propaganda out there. I think the athletic side is leaking info in order to set public perception against the academic side... Things like the fact that Izuea Lanier would've been eligible at all 13 SEC schools not named Tennessee, including Vandy.

I think the BoT and the AD are trying to pull a power play to get Cheek outta there.

I don't think Gruden is coming.

I just think that in the end Dooley is going to be able to roll it all off on Sunseri and skate by.

Yep. Gruden thing is dead according to several insiders. Cheek strikes again.

Oh well... frees up my fall weekends

Well I can say that I'm not excited about any of the other names that have been floated out there, but Dooley is an embarrassment.  I'm resigned to a "whatever" state of mind.

FWIW, a poster on another site claims to have talked to Haslem SR at a charity event and asked him if Gruden was coming.  Haslem reportedly laughed for 30 seconds and then said "the season isn't over yet".

Take it FWIW, probably not much, but if top boosters and/or the admin are taking the position of waiting for the season to play out, then I at least am pleased, because in spite of being accused of being a "doolaid drinker" this has been my position all along.

I haven't really taken a hard position that Dooley needs to be back next year, just that I prefer for the season to play out and then make a reasoned decision at the end.

Having said that, the option you cite, IMO, would not be the end of the world to me, but I am on record as saying that due to the extreme circumstances of Kiffin screwing us, it's not unreasonable to allow four years. 

The thing is, from what I am gathering, Gruden had interest and the money was there to get him.

I feel you are spot on. 

I think only one defensive coach should be retained

If true, what an all time low 2013 will be.  Recruiting is in the gutter.  The fan base (all but Bandit) has completely given up on Dooley.  Dooleyball is an utter embarrassment and for the life of me I can't understand why the powers that be want to prolong the inevitable.  Just get it over with!  There is ZERO reason to let the season play out.  There's nothing left to play out!

I tell you, the perfect picture of Dooleyball was in the second quarter when Dooley had to take a time out on Troy's FG attempt so that he could count the number of players on the field.  Troy then goes for it and scores a TD, and the door was opened for them.   :banghead:

Didn't Dooley hire Sunseri? How do you skate on that?

I know its a bad analogy but the powers that be are about to tick off a bunch of Vol fans like the baseball strike did.......which took them years and years to recover from. I still don't follow baseball like I did before the strike......to wit I didn't watch the 1st game this year. Of course part of that was due to circumstances.

Sal will be the attempted peace offering to try and keep the wolves at bay.

It depends. CDD does need to win out IMO

LOL!  There are far more than me.  Recent polls on other sites indicate a 2-1 split against Dooley. 

I agree about the timeout.  Wondered if anyone else noticed that.  That was in fact pretty bad.

Fire the coach after Florida, like some of you wanted, and it would almost certainly be the worst season of Vol football next year.  I doubt we sniff 500.  Have a little patience....

LOL! "have a little patience"  Hey, why don't we just give him a contract extension for all his moral victories?  After all, progress!

Only 2-1, huh?  Name another profession where two thirds of your customers are dissatisfied and you keep your job. :dunno:

Ansley? Or Conklin?

It's unreasonable to allow four years when the place turns into a mausoleum before the end of year three. The fanbase is voting with its wallet. If they ignore that, then the University has stopped caring about football altogether and not only will they suck next year and not only will recruiting suck but the attractiveness of the job goes down.

Also I don't believe any posters who said they have talked to any Haslem and that includes the plethora of people that I saw say that they talked to one of them and was sure Gruden was coming.

I don't think you are a Doolaid drinker, I think you really enjoy feeling like you are the "calm and rational" person... the voice in the wilderness.

Recruiting is already in the shizzleter (11th in the SEC), and there aren't many big names left on our board.  Dooley's job status is weighing heavily on the minds of recruits, and that's not something he's going to be able to overcome short of winning 10-11 games next year (and pigs might fly out my ass, too).  What's more, next year's home schedule is the weakest it's ever been.  So unless there is some injection of excitement, Saturday's crowd is going to be the norm next year. 

I'm not the "only one" is what I am saying, and it's not even close.

And FTR, I have not advocated keeping Dooley.  Not at all, not earlier in the season, and not now.

Right or wrong, my take is that we need to have some measure of success this season regardless of who the coach is.  Get rid of Dooley prematurely, and you almost guarantee a losing season and no bowl.

If we win out, including the bowl game, then we achieve our first 8-win season and bowl victory since 2007, which is an achievement.  Not the achievement any long-time Vol wants, but significantly better than the last four years. 

I still want that to happen.  And if that doesn't get Dooley fired on the schedule of some of our more desperate fanbase, then so be it.

It's also possible this is just another smokescreen.  :dunno:

Or that a range of options are being considered, depending on how it goes from here.

Again, FWIW, this is all playing out so far based on a hunch I have, which is just that, a hunch.  But so far....

I've been resisting this idea because I find the thought that Cheek is working against UT athletics preposterous because of how short-sighted that would make Cheek. The man could be a lot of things but I don't believe he's an idiot.

You have to truly live in an ivory tower to think that a downgrade in the importance of UT athletics is necessary for its academics to shine. No, I think it's more than that . . . you have to live in such a tower to believe a downgrade in UT athletics won't hurt its academics. A guy like Cheek-- who spent his entire career at a major SEC school with numerous successful programs and championships while having very good academics for a public school-- surely must understand that you can't expect people in the south to detach themselves from football but still feel just as passionate about their university. That is wishful thinking at its very best.

This is why I still don't think Cheek is playing the role in this that is rumored. I'm still inclined to think it's conspiracy nonsense that goes back to irritation at hiring two administrators (DiPietro and Cheek) that had spent a number of years at UF.  Maybe we'll find out the truth sometime.

So? If you, me, or any of us is right about how this plays out.. It's because of pure luck.  None of us really knows what's going on behind the scenes.

What is your hunch?  Anyone can claim that things are progressing exactly according to his hunch if he doesn't make his hunch known up front.

I had a hunch you were going to say that.  FWIW, you know.   :wink:

Totally agree Clockwork.  No one knows what is going on behind close doors.  I honestly don't believe some of the "rumors" out there that Cheek is working against Hart.  I would think if that was the case, that several media outlets would be reporting this.  I haven't seen anyone reporting that except people that think they are in the know!  Unless I have missed something...please someone correct me if I am wrong....but I have seen nothing like that stated from a reputable media source.

With that said, Cheek spent his time at UF which has a strong athletic program.  I would believe he would understand about needing a strong athletic program.  Also, people talk about Cheek wanting to improve the academic side like it is a bad thing.  I think most people fail to realize that UF, UGA etc are all national ranked acedemic wise and are a top 25 school, which is what UT is trying to achieve.  Those things have more to do with research dollars than anything, which has nothing to do with athletics. 

With all that being side, I still believe if we lose one of the remaining games that Dooley will be gone.  Whether we like it or not, nothing was going to happen before the season was over.

Bandit, you keep saying you have a hunch but never tell what that hunch is, which is funny.  Why don't you enlighten all of us about what your "hunch" is.  Why be so close to the vest about it anyway?

Bingo. I think the state government and UT administration wants UT to be, pound for pound, on par with SEC schools like UF, UGA, and Texas A&M. It's not like any of them ignore athletics.

In fact, let's take a look at the top 25 public universities (per US news):

University of California--Berkeley (UC system flagship-- still pursues athletic success)
University of California--Los Angeles (UC system-- has major sport conference and national championships  in recent years)
University of Virginia (major sport conference titles and post-season appearances in recent years)
University of Michigan--Ann Arbor (consistently competitive for championships in all major sports)
University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill (consistently competitive for championships in multiple major sports; hired Butch Davis to try to do the same in football)
College of William and Mary (small liberal arts school)
Georgia Institute of Technology (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)
University of California--Davis (UC system; not top tier in major sports)
University of California--San Diego (UC system; not top tier in major sports)
University of California--Santa Barbara (UC system; not top tier in major sports)
University of Wisconsin--Madison (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)
University of California--Irvine (UC system; not top tier in major sports)
Pennsylvania State University--University Park (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)
University of Illinois--Urbana-Champaign (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)
University of Texas--Austin (consistently competitive for championships in all major sports)
University of Washington (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)
University of Florida (consistently competitive for championships in all major sports)
Ohio State University--Columbus (consistently competitive for championships in all major sports)
University of Maryland--College Park (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)
University of Pittsburgh (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)
University of Connecticut (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)
University of Georgia (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)
Purdue University--West Lafayette (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)
Texas A&M University--College Station (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)
Clemson University (consistently competitive for championships in major sports)

Of the top 25 I count only five who do not make athletics a priority in addition to their academic excellence, and those are William and Mary (less than 10k students, semi-private) and four UC-system schools (and the two best known campuses do field competitive teams). Anyone harboring illusions that we must de-prioritize athletics to join this group does not have a grasp on reality. I won't believe Cheek thinks that unless I see real evidence of it.

I also agree 100% that it's absurd for anyone who claims to care about UT to criticize or mock the Top 25 Initiative.

I think the DL has improved under Palermo.  Conklin, maybe IMO.

I know Conklin is suposed to be a young up and comer but he is in the box calling down to Sal and frankly I think the kids are not being put in the proper formation/positions a lot of the time and he has to share the credit/blame for that.

I haven't seen anything out of Ansley or his players that give me confidence.

William & Mary has a good program in FCS. I think they won the FCS football playoffs not long ago

This entire thread makes me want to go vomit.

You kidding? I'm not going to scent up my deer hunting spot by barfing from my tree stand. I'm not gonna lie though...reading this thread and having a friend text me a picture of the only good buck I've been getting on camera — dead and in the back of the pickup of a guy who hunts on neighboring property — did manage to ruin what was a perfectly good day.

P.S.: I still believe there's no way in hell Dooley survives with a 6-6 record and I am not at all confident that Tennessee can beat Missouri and Vanderbilt. Maybe one, but not both. If anyone believes the fan base is apathetic right now, tack on a loss to Vandy and see how many show up for UK. 50k, maybe? Next season's opener against Austin Peay may set an all-time attendance low for a season opener at Neyland Stadium. Another loss will force their hand, whether or not there's any smoke behind the Cheek rumors (which I still don't really buy...I haven't seen any speculation from anyone "in the know" but admittedly I'm not looking hard. I haven't read VQ in months).

I think you are right, assuming he wins out. If I was Dooley, I would be making the following arguments:

1) In 3 years, I have built the most prolific offense in the history of the school;
2) We have issues on defense because our DC and LB coach left the program to return closer to their home in the PAC12;
3) We hired a new DC from Alabama with everyone on board, including Hart, as he gave a wondeful recomendation for the hire;
4) However, it did not work out and I will be addressing this issue after the season;
5) In the meantime, we will work to land Green, North, Bell, and other SEC athletes that this team still lacks, maintain our discipline, and continue to improve our academic progress.

Not saying it will work, but that would be my stance.

Where's the picture of the deer taken by your neighbor's black powder hunting friend?

And quite carefully avoid uttering "seven," "SEC wins," and "three seasons" too close together, lest the dots be connected.

EDIT: If he wins out it would be seven. Still terrible.

And if I was a fan (which I am), I would make the following argument (which I will):

1.) Who gives a shizzle?

Seriously, I never thought I would reach the stage of DNGAF. But I'm there.

Btw, Hyams (yeah, go ahead and laugh) is saying today that the pathetic turnout for the Troy game has changed Cheek's mind and that he no longer supports Dooley, based on the people he (Hyams) is talking to.

With Hyams, who knows. But I had considered playing a hypocrite and taking my kids to Saturday's game since I can get free tickets. If there appears to be substance to what Hyams is saying, I'll take one for the team and stay home.

I'll be going, how would you get free tickets?

At the bottom of a box of Frosted Flakes? :dance:

smh

Lol, sthu

A kind-hearted citizen who recognizes my charm and good will.

If you can't get close, you can't win the next one.  Logic!  Not a favorite of SEC football fans.   :laugh:

And FTR, regardless who our corch is next year, I think we can beat uga and USCe at home.  We almost took them both on the road this year and they both lose quite a bit...don't know for sure that Murray is going pro though, so I will tie it to him being out for sure.  Feel free to save this post and ridicule me mercilessly if I am wrong.  I stand by it.   :nod:

No argument here, that's pretty much why I am stressing it's a hunch.  But it is based on observation.  See response to Stogie.

Sigh.  Well, I haven't made it clear because...feel free to laugh me off the board...if I am right, it gives the people who have been pressing for a change since essentially last December open lines of attack, if in fact, I am correct.

I have no illusions, none whatever, that I affect things at all.  It's just, if I am right, then I think Hart is playing it very intelligently and I don't want to tip his hand.

But go ahead and laugh at my pretension, and I will go ahead and spill the beans.

My hunch is that Hart has been playing for time all along.  The central piece of evidence is the Assistant Coach contracts.  Hart was intimately involved in those, in fact, he is the signature authority, and so he obviously had two years in mind when he signed them!  (in case you didn't read my two posts below, 7 of our ACs have a two year contract through the end of 2013).  Not only is he smart enough to figure out that we might get 2 of our 3 offensive stars back next year, it gives Sunseri a whole year to get his shizzle together.  We might struggle a bit on D this year, but be pretty good next year, probably compete for the East title and get Dooley to his fifth year.  If Dooley fails next year, very easy to pull the trigger and do a re-start with essentially an all new cast on offense in 2014.  Then the fanbase is patient with the new coach.  Or so he thought.  Unfortunately, the Suneri hire is an EPIC FAIL.  But....

All you have to do is look at how the contracts are structured. 

The other piece of evidence is the comments Hart made right before South Carolina.  He basically said he wasn't happy with the performance on the field while mentioning financial difficulties in the AD.  At the time, I thought that meant simply that he was keeping his options open depending on the performance the rest of the way, but he definitely opened the door to either course of action.  Others interpreted this as a sure sign that Dooley was getting fired the Monday after the USCe game, at which I actually LOL'd privately.

Next piece of evidence...his anger at the MSU game.  He desperately wanted Dooley to beat a ranked team, any ranked team, so that his plan could stay on schedule.  When the best chance for that failed, he knew that a shizzlety two months lay ahead.  Wouldn't wanna be him right now!

Final piece of evidence...Revolver actually cued me in to this when he said the Gruden rumors were the most coherent football internet rumors he had ever seen.  I checked around, and completely agreed with that observation.  This suggested to me a deliberate leak by Hart.  Why?  To distract the fanbase!  To give Dooley time to get into November, win 4 in a row, go to a bowl and make it for one more year.  Particularly when I learned that Gruden made $4 million a year at ESPN, there is no way he would contemplate going to a hot seat college job for a relatively small raise.  Would anyone in their right mind?  Which says that the Gruden rumors were never serious to begin with, which says that Hart is still hoping to hold on to Dooley one more year...OR pursue his real target, which could be someone named at the end of the year (Strong would be my choice).

Think about it...this site and others I checked were so giddy with the prospect of Gruden that no one cared we had a game against USCe or bammer.  It pretty much distracted the fanbase for nearly two weeks!  Brilliant move, IYAM.

So that's my hunch, for what it's worth.  Recent leaks about Cheek saying Dooley stays if he wins out only re-enforce my belief in my hunch.

But ICBW...

On the off chance that I got it completely right, I might just be effing Hart up.  But he's a big boy, he can handle it.

Whatever the case, whether Hart has another target in mind or he is willing to keep Dooley another year, primarily for financial reasons, the part that makes me glad is that whatever he is doing, he is taking his time and resisting the urge to "make a splash" or wow the more vocal and impatient part of our fanbase. 

So I am very happy with Hart, at this point in time.

I could be completely wrong about all of the above.  It's just a hunch, that I have held since the MSU game aftermath, but nothing has convinced me yet that I am offbase.
 

See my reply to Stogie...and feel free to laugh at why I didn't articulate it.  :biggrin:

I agree Palermo has done the only close to good job.  Ansley...nothing against the guy, but he coached DBs at Bammer, and as every bammer fan will be quick to tell you, SABAN coaches the DBs at bammer.  That's his background, and he's hands on.

So in spite of the excellant secondary bammer had while Ansley was there in 2010 and 2011 (all the starters that graduated are in the NFL!), it was likely Saban and not Ansley.  Agree that Conklin would be the other guy to keep other than Palermo...safety play has, IMO, been better than CB.

And it's not a totally unreasonable one, not at all.

And those of us that are saying this, will hardly tolerate the current situation forever.   Definitely not any longer than this year.  But IMO one year of mediocrity in transition to something better, is acceptable.  Those who argue against that suggest they have no confidence in the future, but a counter to that is "there are no moral losses".  Eight wins is eight wins, I don't care how we get there, and that was my standard in August and I am sticking with it. 

Because as a lot of people tell me...it's all about the W's and L's.  And I don't particularly care who the W's come against.  A W is a W and an L is a L!     :nod:

Well, that's a heckuva hunch.  I just wish you had provided a bit more detail.  :biggrin:

I do think Hart is going to go all apeshizzle when he reads this.

If only it had been just one year of mediocrity . . .

 :wow:

So let me get this straight.  The Gruden rumors bought Dooley time, and took the heat off him? 

 :loco:

There has yet to be a year of mediocrity.  The last three years have been shizzle, actually.  You might qualify 2009 as mediocre, but then you have two MISERABLE seasons in a row.

So mediocrity, defined as 8-5 and a bowl win, is a significant improvement over 5-7 and losing to Kentucky, regardless of what anyone says about style points or quality of victories.  A W is a W! 

See, this is why message boards should probably be banned. The AD put a lot of work into this plan to trick the fan base into accepting Dooley for one more year. He pissed off a bunch of people at him and his boss Cheek in the process, had every freakin' sports media professional in East Tennessee chasing down sources, had Mrs. Gruden's old cheerleading buddies milking her for info and pushing it to twitter and Facebook . . . and then some guy way too inquisitive for his own good derails the whole freakin' thing.  :dunno:

No Vinnie.   They were real.   Gruden is really going to give up a $4 million a year gig on Monday Night Football, one of the softest, most cushy jobs in the world, to come to Knoxville and try to satisfy...people like you.

 :dielaughing:

Now THAT would be  :loco:   :nod:

But to answer your question...they bought HART time.  Not Dooley. 

That's my hunch, I hope it continues to amuse you.  You know I don't take this stuff personally.  So I invite all to mock it.  We'll see how accurate it ends up, I guess.

I guess the difference between you and I is that I really don't give a rip about a 55-48 win over a mid-level Sun Belt team. As long as we're 0-5 in the SEC, it's a miserable season. As long as Neyland Stadium is 40% red on the third Saturday in October, it's a miserable season.

Rigghhhht.  But coming close to beating uga and USCe on the road, when it was WIDELY PREDICTED that they would dog whip us.  "There are no moral victories".

Ya can't have it both ways.... :nono:

A W is a W and an L is an L.

You can look at the close and vomitous win over Troy and say you have no confidence in the future and I can look at the close calls vs. uga and USCe and say "hey, maybe we beat them next year", but it doesn't change the results of the games. 

And we have not had 8 wins since 2007, style points be dazammed.

But see, that's the thing.  There's no consistency with Dooley's teams.  They can show great improvement one week, get the fanbase all excited, and then shizzle the bed the next week.  When we almost beat LSU in DD's first year, we all thought that he was next great UT coach.  He was going to build up this roster and have us loaded for bear by...2012. Yet here we sit at 0-5 again.  And it goes from week to week, too.  We played UGA this year closer than anyone expected.  A lot of people (including myself) dared to believe that maybe, just maybe, we had finally turned the corner.  But then in the very next game, they pull a no-show in the first half against MSU.  The only thing consistent about this team is that when they face an opponent with a pulse, they WILL find a way to lose.  They may get blown out, they may play them close, but the bottom line will always be the same.  

Not as loco as you thinking that you're "effing Hart up" by spilling the beans on his elaborate scheme here on VTTW.  :rolleyes:

So, now that it's pretty much certain Gruden isn't coming you are going on record of saying how ridiculous it was all along.  On top of that, you now declare it is happening just as you suspected all along, even though you never said so before now.  Right.

I thought the hiring of Gruden was  ridiculous only when I heard how much he currently made, and frankly I don't recall when that was - probably a day or two before we played bammer.  When I heard that, it added to my belief that my hunch was correct, but I formed the opinion in between the MSU and USCe game. 

And what I thought was incorrect prior to that was not that Gruden would be hired, but that Dooley would be fired right after USCe.  I am on record below at least twice stating this opinion prior to us playing USCe.

And yes, the reason I didn't want my hunch "revealed" is because I have so much faith in it that I do think I have "exposed" Hart.  Which I freely admit is open to ridicule.   :dielaughing:

 :tongue:
(http://www.oneletterwords.com/assets/1297635399.jpg?t=1297635474)

 :dielaughing:

Every person here is bat shizzle crazy...myself included.  :dance: