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http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2013/aug/18/john-adams-phillip-fulmer-needs-to-look-in-a/

I think he's right. I hate it that we're even on this subject 5 years later, but for it to be let go, Fulmer has to let it go...and he hasn't yet.

Sigh.  I'm a big Fulmer fan, but I wish he would just stop saying things like that.  No single person should get all the blame; Fulmer, Hammy, and others all played some part.  I don't like Majors taking his jabs either.   :frown:

Damn...we need to concentrate on 2013...not Fulmer.  There was no need for John Adams to even write that piece, it is ancient history now.  Onward...to the future please...FFW  FFW  FFW  FFW

 :patriot:
 :powert:

The whole point is it isn't ancient history. Fulmer made these remarks just a few days ago, which prompted the piece from Adams.

Do we know what prompted Fulmer to make those remarks?  I admit I didn't read the whole thing from Fulmer this morning, but did some guy just start asking him leading questions?  Or did Fulmer call somebody up and say "I got some things I wanna say."

Guess it doesn't matter much either way, Fulmer still needs to get over it.  Still think a lot of him, but this kind of stuff bugs me.

So what...what do you personally care, or why should it bother you??  We all know what Phil done for UT, and how it all ended...and who cares what that GIANT PIECE OF ELEPHANT DUNG John Adams THINKS ANYWAY???    You can keep rehashing this shizzle all you want, but why??  It's over and done...move on.
 :powert:

It also bugs me that John Adams surely fell all over himself cranking out that little piece.  He just sits there and waits for the chance to rehash all of Fulmer's bad moments.

Fulmer has pointed his finger everywhere but at himself. He brought this up again and Adams responded in kind.

Adams is a columnist; it's his job to have an opinion.  Fulmer told the truth, but not the whole truth, and Adams took that high hanging curve and hit it out of the park.

That said, we should be smarter than to fall for his schtick, especially at this point in time.  For the past 9 months, I've seen a fanbase that has been fractured for nearly a decade start to become united again.  Why rehash the past now, less than two weeks before a new era begins? :frown:

Yes.  This is what Adams was responding to:

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/08/phillip_fulmer_says_administra.html#incart_river_default

It tells me a lot about Fulmer IMO.....He could have declined an interview and said it's time to move on and support the new coach and the program.....He didn't and it's downright pitiful in my book.

I posted the link here because I thought it was interesting. I didn't say it bothered me. If it bothers you so much, I think probably the best thing for you to do is ignore stuff like this and focus on the season at hand.

Fulmer's success during his tenure as HC was because of Chief and coach Cutcliffe.
They were the glue that held the team together and they got the most out of the great players that Fulmer recruited.
Fulmer got a lot of great players from all over especially the state of South Carolina but when the ol' ball coach went to USC all of that talent we were getting started to dry up and when Fulmer promoted Sanders to OC,that was the beginning of slippery slope off the cliff for Fulmer.
The offense under Sanders fell from top ten material to over 100th worst in the nation in 2005,while the defense under Chief was always at or near the top ten statistically.
When Coach Cut came back in 2006 he turned the offense back around but when he left after 2 yrs it went right back in the ground with Clawson.
Fulmer stayed with Sanders way too long and the offensive woes between Sanders and Clawson and two losing seasons in four years did him in.
Fulmer needs to shut up,man up and accept the fact that he is the one responsible for losing his job

A friend and I were having this conversation yesterday. My argument, which I know is not something many UT fans will agree with, is that Sanders got a bad rap. He called the '98 BCS national championship game, and was a step away from calling another BCSNCG in 2001. The 2000 and 2004 teams were pretty darned good, and the '02 and '03 teams weren't bad. Granted, a lot of that was due to outstanding defenses, but I'm still of the opinion that Sanders was a better coach than he was given credit for. At the end of the day, I still believe he was a scapegoat.

IMO..Sanders should have never been named OC to begin with..He was a former UT qb that was moved up from running backs coach to OC after Coach Cut left for Ole Miss.
Fulmer filled that spot by staying within the "family" with a young unproven former Vol qb and it back fired on him and he was too stubborn to make the change till his own job was put on the line in 2005.
Sanders was no "scapegoat" the offense sucked with him as OC.The defense was good enough to keep them in games that he found a way to lose on several occasions.Even Coach Cut said in 2006 that the first thing he noticed about Eric Ainge was his mechanics were all wrong and we all saw what a change Ainge and the offense made in 2006 when Cut came back and sanders was gone.
He always put the games on the shoulders of the qb's and coached like it was a chess match instead obvious running situations even when the other teams defenses were gassed.
I remember the year after winning the NC and playing Nebraska in the bowl game..UT had the ball at mid field 3rd and very short,whats Sanders call? Tee Martin in the shotgun runs a qb draw and gets stopped way short..To get a half yard,he makes his qb run a draw 5 yrs deep in the back field.
We punt,Nebraska gets the ball same situation,they run the obvious qb sneak under center and they get the 1st down and go on to score and end up winning the game.

I can already see that this thread is going to give me a migraine.  :banghead:

Well, it's obvious that Adams can call this article a success.

After simmering on it a bit more, I just chalk it up to Adams' shtick, his game and agenda.  This is how he gets clicks and reads.  So in the words of Ainge, I'm gonna give Adams a "bless his heart", set it down, and keep me eyes on the excitement that is to come.

Yeah that's the one I said I didnt read in it's entirety.

You could sense that the fanbase was ready to re-embrace both Fulmer and Majors as players and coaches who gave their all for Tennessee. The Fulmer haters had stopped griping for the most part and Majors's face was popping up quite a bit in conjunction with the program. Both coaches said good things about Butch and the direction of the program. It had a very, very good feel.

If you're Adams, who has made a career riling up fans to increase readership, where's the fun in that? And so this article comes out. That's really all there is to it. Is he right that Fulmer doesn't accept enough blame? Of course he is. Fulmer is a proud man and may never acknowledge that his termination was his own doing. Did Majors ever acknowledge the same? I'm not sure he did. And how many of us would?

Successful people are often too proud to acknowledge their failures. That's not news. That's why I'm disappointed that so many people have taken Adams's bait on this one. This is a non-story.

We've been all around this issue, and I have been very outspoken on Fulmer.  I'm not his fan.  But, yes, I have pretty much let it die to this point. 

But to point a finger at Adams is just shooting the messenger, as far as I see it.  If Fulmer would just learn to issue a no comment on these kinds of things the John Adams' of the media world wouldn't keep writing about it.  And what makes this one even more controversial is that he made the comments to the Alabama media.  This is a news story.  Fulmer made it one. 

Fulmer won a lot of games, but he lost his job because of Phillip Fulmer's decisions, not who was or wasn't the UT president at the time.  As long as Fulmer continues the blame game and continues to publicly comment about it it will be news. 

I'm not pointing the finger at Adams. He's looking for web hits and paper sales. Did he write an article on a complete non-story? Sure he did, but he knew it would stir the shizzle and it has. I can't fault him for doing what he does. That's his job.

It's not a news story. There is not a THING that is new about this. Why is anyone at all surprised that Fulmer-- for the 1,000th time-- doesn't want to take the blame for the program's dip late in his tenure? He never has and I'm sure he never will. I'll repeat that I don't think Majors did either. Who cares?

John Adams is an old-school troll, and the UT fanbase has been his target for many years. We all just need to let the Fulmer story go away, whether he continues to answer questions about it or not. It's been over for a long, long time.

SMH at this fanbase. First the uniforms and now another Fulmer debate. It's embarrassing.

It's a discussion. Nothing more, nothing less. Something there hasn't been a whole lot of on this forum recently. I'm pretty sure most logical people can discuss something without getting so caught up that they lose sight of what's at hand.

A senseless discussion that has no resolution and no ground gained by either side, ever. And people get worked up about it, every single time. I just don't get it. People need to stop looking for apologies or concessions from Fulmer. It's not happening.

Yeah, like that's unusual for any message board on the planet.   :dielaughing:

Well, of course it's not. I just wish people would recognize when they're being trolled and goaded into an unnecessary argument instead of getting all red about it. There are far more interesting things to be talking about WRT UT football right now but by far the most active and engaged threads on here have been about uniforms and former coaches. I just think it's silly.

I don't think anyone is looking for anything from Fulmer. Majors went well over a decade hating Tennessee for its decision to fire him. That's just part of it. But when a coach goes to a meeting of SEC minds with media present and starts bashing his university's leadership decisions, that's newsworthy. It just is. As I told ChattanoogaVol above, those who get overly worked up about the situation probably need to avoid the subject altogether. For the rest of us adults, there's no reason we can't discuss it and debate it to tide us over until football season gets here.

Nobody respects Fulmer any more than I do for all the good times he brought to the university and the football program. I don't blame him for being a little bitter, but I'm also not going to blame Adams -- who is one of the best sports columnists in the business and is well-respected by his peers for a reason -- for responding. Adams' job, the job by any columnist, is to make people want to pick up a newspaper (or visit the website), and he does that quite well. If the only thing the KNS carried was an analysis of the latest practice, they would only hurt themselves. In any market, but especially in this market, fans will consume any information they can get their hands on in copious amounts, even those who read the columns just so they can get a good mad on and gripe about the writer. That's just how it is. Fulmer doesn't get to be a taboo topic just because it's been 5 years or because it's close to football season.

You've done your fair share of responding.  :wink: If it's so silly, just ignore it. Seems pretty simple to me.  :kiss2:

I'm not the least bit mad at Adams. I actually don't mind the guy at all. He just does what he does and is an amazingly effective troll. The fanbase is to blame for letting him bother them and get things stirred up.

Fulmer's not taboo. But do we not get tired of the same discussions over and over?

I'll bow out of this and you guys can continue.

Well, I like to talk (not to mention, argue), so...no.  :biggrin: If there was some other hot-button topic being discussed, I'd gladly abandon this one to jump to it. Maybe we can talk about tearing down the pedestrian bridge over PFW to make way for new construction. That still gripes my butt. (Speaking of which, is that the slowest construction project in history or what? Such an eyesore right outside the stadium.)

The whole "this fanbase is the worst at this" and "I'm so embarrassed by the way we are acting" really rubs me the wrong way.  There's no way we're any different from many, many other fanbases of a big time program. Those who look down their noses at all the redneck simpletons are in every fan base too.  Every program has drama and certain hot topics.  And every fan has their own set of interest, preferences, and personality.  Doesn't make one any better than another.

at least they are not going to replace the parking lot with a garage now
At least some sanity is still present in the administration

Here Here!!  I agree that Sanders should have never been named the OC and I think he was the primary reason for our offensive decline.  Fulmer had too much pride in hiring "his" guys and Sanders was not qualified to do the job.  Fulmer had too much pride to admit that  his boy wasn't getting it done and here we are. 

And since this is a "discussion" board, I think it is perfectly appropriate to discuss things related to the Big Orange.  I choose to ignore threads that I have no interest it, and I participate in those that stir my passions.  I have finally learned to live and let live.  Please don't take this harshly but please ignore us while we discuss the issue.  Thanks buddy.   :old:

Its been years since I got to bash Randy Sanders....brings back old memories :box: :box: :box:

So, a fired football coach goes in to a rival state and tells the media that he was fired because of others incompetence and says nothing about his part in the demise of the program and that's not a news story? 

Uh, ok.   :rolleyes:

And as long as Fulmer himself makes the decision to talk about it publicly the media will react, and it should.  If you choose to believe that is "trolling", then so be it, but at least admit that it is Fulmer trolling, too.  He knows it is going to bring about reaction from the media and is going to continue to divide the UT fan base. 

Rather than trolling I call that narcissism on his part. 

100% correct!!!! Fulmer started it...if he hadn't started it Adams wouldn't have written his article, we wouldn't be having these discussions.

The sorry POS brought all this on instead of taking the high-road, keeping his mouth shut for the betterment of the program. He is ONE SORRY POS!!!

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Sorry pos?  Lol, wow. :wtf: 

My thoughts exactly. :crazy:

I may disagree with Fulmer, but he gave way too much of himself to the university...he deserves a little more respect than that.

Exactly why I said, it's in the past, can't change it now, does not matter at all anymore...LOOK TO 2013  :wtf:

 :powert:

Not when he spouts off and won't take the high road 5 years later and 6 million richer. You can feel about him how you may.

I've been a fan for 60 years and I have a right to my opinion....and I gave mine. I respected him at one time but not since he points the blame everywhere but himself. He gets ZERO respect from me and many feel the same as I do.

  

Phil doesn't really bother me regardless of what he says or doesn't say. I appreciate what he did, but he isn't the coach now and his opinions about anything matter very little to me.

Like most people who are a success in his profession he has a huge ego. It helped make him a success but the flip side of that is not being able to see fault in oneself. That is a flaw many of us have, including me. We all like to be right, all of the time.

I just hope Butch can do the job, and that is the extent of my concern about UT coaches. 

Agree.

On the overall issue, I completely agree that Fulmer was never self-critical.  I even met him in person once at a Big Orange Caravan, and I wished him luck against Florida.  He mistook my remark as criticism and got defensive!  LOL, it was odd.

But he does have a good point...overall there was no leadership above him either, and I am still not sure about our Prez.  I do like Hart a lot better than Hammy though.

So what does a troll do?  Find a hot button issue for an individual and or individuals, and push those buttons!

Hmm, I seem to recall a certain discussion you started with me not long ago related to driving that turned into a complete cluster fizzle.  Congrats, you got me!  But I did realize about halfway through that you and a few others were trolling me.  Hope you enjoyed it.  :beer:

If it led to any improvements in your highway etiquette I'll call it a win.

 :powert:

I finally read the original al.com article.

I think I might call BS on Adams entire premise due to this quote:

Since he left, the Vols have a 9-23 conference record and a 23-27 overall mark under Lane Kiffin (2009) and Derek Dooley (2010-12).But don't put all the blame for Tennessee's slide on his successors, Fulmer said.

So the context of the question was why his SUCCESSORS didn't do as well AFTER HE LEFT, and Fulmer was to some extent defending THEM!!!  Not himself.

If the question had been how did Tennessee get to the point it was when Kiffin took over, then yes Fulmer should shoulder his fair share of the blame.

LMAO!!!  This pretty much discredits Adams to me.

But let me be clear...at no point in his entire career, or since, has Fulmer ever been good at taking responsibility for mistakes or being self-critical.  Never has, never will.  

But in this case it seems the alabammer reporter was trying to lure him into a comment on Kiffin and Dooley and he pointed them elsewhere.  

Fulmer isn't taking blame there.  He's blaming administration again. 

Don't think that discredits Adams at all. 

THREE WORDS

LET IT GO!!!!!!!!!

(http://d1mpb3f4gq7nrb.cloudfront.net/img/toons/cartoon2710.png)

Perhaps you need to tell that to our former head football coach.  He's the one who continues to bring it back up over and over and over ..........

And as long as he does people will react. 

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2013/aug/21/fulmer-takes-responsibility-likes-jones/ (http://timesfreepress.com/news/2013/aug/21/fulmer-takes-responsibility-likes-jones/)

There you have it!  Now he's not a sorry POS anymore!   :bowrofl:

Not so fast.  Did he prostrate himself before Butch Jones and the team and beg their forgiveness?  Did he pay back every penny that he earned in 17 years at UT?  Did he go door to door to every current UT student and alumni to personally apologize?  I don't think so. :rolleyes:

Phil Fulmer done way more for UT than John Adams ever did. John Adams is a hack reporting LSU Fan. I followed UT Football for nearly 40 years. I remember UT getting their butt kicked my Bama every year. I remember dreaming and wishing UT could beat teams like Bama,Ohio State,Michigan and win a National Title.  Phil Fulmer led UT to a National Title in 1998. That was by far my favorite sporting event ever.


I will admit that I thought Fulmer needed to go. I thought he lost his edge. He lost his fire. But! I always liked him and wanted him to go out a winner.  It disgusts me how bad some UT fans hate Fulmer's guts. I do know this. I know 2 guys who played OL for Fulmer. Todd Upton and David Douglas. I worked with Todd years ago. He told me Fulmer could call him at 3:00 AM and ask him for a favor and he would help him out in a heartbeat. David Douglas thought very highly of Fulmer also.

Good post........AGREE 100%.
He made some mistakes and it cost UT, and him his job, but he helped to put us back on the map more than anyone in a long time...AND FOR THAT I AM MORE THAN WILLING TO CUT HIM SOME SLACK

 :powert:

You missed my point I think.  The question was about the lack of success of his successors....it didn't involve what state the program was in when he left, but what happened afterwards.  And Fulmer is pointing out that four presidents in six years and Hamilton didn't help.

He could easily have taken a dig at Dooley.  Even the worst Fulmer critic would admit that Fulmer could have out-coached Dooley.  Heck, you or I probably could.   :naughty:

 :dielaughing:

This thread is now in the Top 10 of all threads based on number of replies.

I don't know what that means, if anything. But facts are facts and stats are stats.

Congratulations to all who participated.

 :laugh:

I feel accomplished.  :clap: :hi5:

(http://31.media.tumblr.com/4b7faff0de2f0876e184d6ec6a42150b/tumblr_mmr81wC6tY1rg5peto1_400.gif)

Delenda est Adams  :bird:

My personal dealings with Adams has indicated he is a JACKASS of the first order (this is a family board)  :bird:

Was there ever any doubt?  I'm just surprised it took this long.  :banghead:

THIS.  KNS is a complete joke and Adams is the head clown.  The fact that UTs hometown paper would put up with this semi-literate troll is pathetic.  Have you seen his latest hack job devoted entirely to trashing our assistant coaches?   Can only shake my head.... and go back to reading the Chatt paper...

Love him or hate him, John Adams could leave the KNS and get a job at most newspapers in America. He is very good at what he does. (And, not to belabor the point, but he's far from semi-literate; he's actually a very gifted writer...which is why he has won numerous awards for sportswriting.)

Personally, Adams gets under my skin more often than not. But that's what a good columnist does. The Chatty TFP and the Maryville DT will always play second fiddle to the KNS in the Tennessee sports market. Part of it is location, obviously, and part of it is a variety of other factors. But a not-insignificant part of it is because they have columnists who are willing to go against the grain. I'd rather see that in a newspaper than see a sports staff full of cheerleaders (which is essentially what the TFP is made up of).

Btw: I have to admit that I hadn't read Adams' latest column until I saw your post. I didn't see it as "trashing" the UT staff at all. I thought it was a realistic look at the makeup of the staff. They DO have something to prove. There was much discussion back in the winter about how Butch promised to assemble the best coaching staff in the SEC and then went out and hired a bunch of guys most average fans had never heard of. Personally, I'm fine with that, because I want him to be surrounded by people he trusts and is familiar with. But I don't think there's any doubt that the jury is still out on this staff...and that's why several of the football blogs that rank everything from best-looking cheerleaders to best mascots have ranked UT's coaching staff towards the bottom of the SEC.

Some of y'all are missing the point.  This isn't a "Phil Fulmer vs. John Adams" thing at all.  Fulmer said it to the Alabama media and Adams wrote an opinion column about it - a column that wasn't vindictive nor did it make up anything.  Fulmer said it, he's repeated it multiple times since he was fired, and Adams' job is to respond to what he reads, sees, and hears. 

Bottom line:  If Fulmer wouldn't come out with the same lines over and over and over again the John Adams' of the media wouldn't continue to call him on it. 

This is a classic case of shooting the messenger, that being John Adams, and ignoring Fulmer's version of the message. 

^BOOM!!!.......again.

Been the same over on chit-chat...blaming Adams for something Fulmer has said over and over for 5 years now. Unreal!

Question: If Fulmer were to come out tomorrow and accept full responsibility for everything from the state of our football program to Pat Summitt's health to world hunger, what changes?  Is it somehow going to make our team better?  Does it somehow improve your life?  Are you mad that he actually took a buyout?  Because you can pin that one directly on Hamilton's incompetence (which, ironically, proves Fulmer's point).  And don't tell me that you wouldn't have done the same in Fulmer's position.

Look, no one was more adamant that Phil had to go than I was.  You can go back and check the VTTW archives from 2008.  In fact, you can also check them from 2007, because I was saying it then, too- even after he won the East.  But once it was done, it was over for me.  No need to tap dance on the man's grave.  I'm looking forward.

IMO, we only have one former head coach that deserves to be called a POS.  I'll give you three guesses who it is, and the first two don't count.  I won't even refer to Dooley in such terms- incompetent fool, maybe, but not a POS.   :frown:

Exactly.  I think one of my biggest problems with the whole situation was that Hamilton gave Fulmer an extension in March 2008 and then fired him in November 2008.  At least stick by your man a bit better, or don't be stupid enough to give him such a nice contract extension to begin with!

In all of this, are the Fulmer bashers disputing the truth of what he said, whether it's considered an excuse or not?   That is, do any of you want to defend Hamilton and the fact that we had four presidents in six years, and perhaps argue that's not a huge part of the problem? 

Deflecting blame or not....he had a point.

Yep, folks need to get over it.

I dont understand why some of you are so determined that nobody should discuss PF or say anything derogatory about him. Why are you so adamant that we "move on"? I dont get why some folks insist that the past cannot be discussed by those who choose to discuss it. Why not ignore that which you dont want to read? I dont mind disagreement but i really dont care for being told to shut up and move on. Uncool in my opinion...it is obvious that some folks still want to talk about it. Maybe when there is actually some football to talk about we will "move on". JMO.

I tend to occasionally beat dead horses, and no moreso than in the case of Phil and the nature of his departure.  No matter what is said about whether he should have left, I think even his harshest critics would agree that how he left and what transpired afterwards was a disaster of the first order.  I also don't think anyone would seriously dispute that, however mediocre he was when he left, the last four years would have been better with Phil, perhaps substantially better.  I think it should continue to be discussed as a lesson for the future.  I like how Dooley's departure was handled much, much better and hope that Hart continues to display the same competence and professionalism should another change be necessary in 3-4 year (and pray God it won't be!).

Having said that, we kick off in about 8 days or so....and there is almost ZERO discussion of the upcoming season and a thread on some comments that Phil made is top ten.

I do think we could table this discussion and show some excitement for the upcoming season????? I haven't even seen a recent practice report or roster update, let alone a discussion of any upcoming games or the season.  Part of the problem might be that Austin Peay is  apretty unexciting opponent, but we do kick off in 8 days! 


Even though I have participated in this thread fully, I am hoping we might could focus on this season at some point.  So I am done with this thread (cue smartass response from Creekwalker.... :naughty:).

Hard to get too fired up over Austin peay....but yer right...its almost FOOTBALL TIME IN TENNESSEE!!!

Top 5, with an arrow

I also heard that Phil Fulmer likes to play golf with Jim Haslam and John Gruden, cruise at 50 mph in the left lane with Bobby Petrino, helped design the gray uniforms, and shaves with Gillette razors.  

There.  I just broke VTTW. :dance:

Have to get back to you on that.  I've got to check the film before I can comment on your post.   :naughty: