VTTW Board Index

Sports => VTTW Message Board => Topic started by: Be-the-Vol on July 31, 2014, 05:02:50 EDT



Title: Bored poll...
Post by: Be-the-Vol on July 31, 2014, 05:02:50 EDT
I’ve seen few comments about “bandwagon fans” and that got me thinking about my fandom.  As a kid I did some bandwagon jumping, but then settled in on my favorite teams. 

These are my favorite sports teams and about when I settled on them as my favorites:

Baseball:  Boston Red Sox – Early 1970s (I was also a huge Roberto Clemente fan at the time)

Football:  S.F. 49ers - Mid 1970s

Hockey: Philadelphia Flyers – As long as I can remember

Basketball:  Chicago Bulls – Mid 1970s (I was also a huge Dr. J fan)

I really didn’t start being a big Tennessee fan until TRO enrolled at UT in the late 1970s.

How about you?


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: RIPLEYVOL on July 31, 2014, 05:19:58 EDT
Baseball: Cincinnati as a kid (Rose, Bench era). Yankees now, have been since 80's
Football:  Dallas  as a kid (didn't know any better) I like the Broncos, Titans and Steelers. (Manning<Home State<R. Foster,,home town)
Hockey:....What is that?
Basketball: Harlem Globetrotters
Born and bred BIG ORANGE!! No substitutes!


Title: I've always been a Vol fan. I used to really
Post by: VOLMAN on July 31, 2014, 06:41:38 EDT
like the Redskins before free agency ruined football for me. I like the Braves and don't really follow any other sports.....so really the Vols are the only team I would call "my team" 'cause I'm not as big a baseball fan as I used to be.      :patriot:


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: PirateVOL on July 31, 2014, 06:50:19 EDT
Baseball: Braves, even before they moved to Atlanta (Spahn & Sain, Pray for rain, Eddie MAthews, Hank Aaron, etc) & Cincinnati in mid 70s while stationed in Ohio (Rose, Bench, Doggie Perez, etc era).
Football:  Da Bears historically though Baltimore in the Unitas eara was a fav.  Indy/Denver more recently for some reason ...
Hockey:....Could give a rats ...
Basketball: From Russell to Bird The Boston Celtics!
Born and bred BIG ORANGE!!


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: Clockwork Orange on July 31, 2014, 07:14:40 EDT
Pro baseball, football, basketball: I follow players, not teams. I've never been able to make myself a fan of a team I have no association with. I was a Will Clark fan so I had Giants and Rangers phases before his career faded out with several other teams. Now I have no baseball team. In football I follow the teams of former Vols, and in particular root for the Broncos and Chiefs at the moment. In the NBA I have teams/players I root against moreso than teams/players I root for.

Despite growing up in Knoxville I wasn't raised on UT football like some were. My dad has always been a lukewarm fan at best. 1992 was the year I solidified myself as a real Vol fan . . . the season opener (SWLA) was one of the first games I had been to, and then we promptly beat UGA and UF in the next two games. I was 13 and that's when I really got hooked.


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: TheRealOrange on July 31, 2014, 07:34:46 EDT
Baseball: Phillies; Reds also when I was younger; now just the Phillies.

Pro Football: Eagles; Vikings also when I was younger; now just the Eagles.

Hockey: Flyers, always.

Basketball: 76ers, when I cared.

College: Vols, once I started at UT (September 1978).


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: Tnphil on July 31, 2014, 07:37:09 EDT
Cards fan since the early 50's.......Started going to St. Louis games in old Sportsman's Park. Never waivered.

Same with UT....50's.

For years and years I was a Minn. Vikings fan. Over the last 30 years I've haven't been a big NFL fan. I do follow and pull for the Titans. NFL is one of those things if I don't have anything else to do I'll watch it.
 
Hockey..... :bird:

NBA....... :bird:

Soccer..... :bird:


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: droner on July 31, 2014, 07:50:32 EDT
Baseball: Yankees as a kid, Braves since they moved to Atlanta

Football: Colts as a kid, now it's a mish-mash. I pull for Denver because of Peyton, I'll still pull for the Colts some, also Falcons and Panthers. I just don't watch NFL football like I used to.

NBA: Celtics from 60's through Bird's era. Now I don't care anything at all about the NBA. I haven't watched a full game in over 20 years and haven't watched much of any one game since then.

Hockey: Eh?

College: Been a Vol fan since 1966. USCe is my second favorite college.


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: Stogie Vol on July 31, 2014, 08:37:55 EDT
Baseball: Braves since I was a kid, but don't follow very closely now.

Football: Dallas when I was a kid, now I follow individual players (VFL's)

NBA: I was a Detroit fan during the Laimbeer, Thomas years. Not a fan of any team now.

Hockey: none

College: Vol fan my whole life.


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: 73Volgrad on July 31, 2014, 08:44:37 EDT
Here goes.

Baseball: Yankees as a kid (pre-Steinbrenner); lost total interest when they started striking.

Pro Football: Baltimore, then New England (pre- the cheating coaches); now ones with ex-UT stars

NBA: Celtics until the league decided entertainment was more important than basketball in 1970s; have not watched a full game since mid-1980s

Hockey: whoever is winning, better in person, cannot go to game since my son (who played) died 10 years ago; when they beat sticks on ice, I get chest pains

College: UT, moved to Knoxville in 1969 to start school and been hooked ever since


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: Creek Walker on July 31, 2014, 09:23:34 EDT
I developed most of my pro sports allegiances around the age of 8 or 9 and most of them were influenced by whatever my friends at school were talking about during recess. That's where I became a big fan of the Spurs, Cubs and Dolphins.

I am still very much a Spurs fan, although my interest in the NBA is waning. When the Spurs' current "Big 3" of Duncan, Parker and Ginobili retire and Popovich either retires or moves on to another club, I'll probably lose my interest in the NBA altogether.

I stopped following the Dolphins when Marino retired and since then I've been very much like Clocky -- I follow players, not teams. I was an Indianapolis fan for years for obvious reasons, and always thought I would be a Colts fan even when Manning retired. But Jim Irsay is such a douchebag that I root for every team playing Indianapolis now.  :biggrin: I am a Broncos fan now -- which was an easy transition for me because I have always liked the Broncos dating back to Elway's playing days. Lots of people call me a bandwagon football fan, and that's fine. I've tried to like the Titans since they're a Tennessee team, but just can't.

As for baseball, I followed the Cubs for years but just gradually lost interest. The '98 home run race between Sosa and Big Mac was a lot of fun, but that was the last year I really watched MLB. I still like the sport and I've tried to rekindle my interest. If I ever become a fan of MLB again, I'll probably be a Cincinnati fan -- just because they're relatively close to home and I like the idea of being able to hop in the car and go catch a game if I want to. The only other MLB team close enough is Atlanta, and me being an Atlanta fan is just out of the question.  :laugh:

There was never any question about me being a Tennessee fan. The first UT game I can recall was the '88 game against Memphis State. I was 9 at the time. My dad was taking the family on our annual leaf-peeping tour through the Cumberland Mountains and the pregame was on the radio. UT was 0-6, and some dude named Joe was on the roof of a store, refusing to come down until Tennessee won. They had a song about him on the radio. I was mesmerized. Then John and Bill came on, and I was instantly hooked. I don't know why I don't remember UT games before that. Probably I was busy doing other things when the Vols were on. But I instantly began to eat, breathe and sleep UT football. I remember two years later, when my great-grandma was dying and the family had been summoned to the hospital, I bought every preseason magazine in the gift shop and spent hours poring over them. It was a great time to come of age as a Tennessee fan. I still think those '90 and '91 teams were the most talented teams Tennessee has ever fielded.


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: HerbTarlekVol on July 31, 2014, 10:28:25 EDT
Baseball: 

Dad took me to my first Braves game in 1968.  Been hopelessly hooked ever since.  I have remained loyal through the 100 loss years, all the way through the 14 straight Division Championships, the lone World Series win, and to this day.  Still hopelessly hooked. 

Two other teams I have closely followed are the Red Sox and the Texas Rangers. 

Red Sox because Carlton Fisk is married to my cousin, and I had the opportunity to spend some time with them in Spring Training in Winter Haven a couple of times.  Class act, and a great player.  Still enjoy seeing and talking to him on occasion. 

The Texas Rangers.  Two of my favorite players during my college playing days were Jim Sundberg and Buddy Bell.  I was a catcher/third baseman and tried to model my game after those two guys.  I still am a Rangers fan. 

NFL Football:

I've jumped around on this one.  Was a Bears fan for a good while because of Walter Peyton, and then through the "Super Bowl Shuffle" years.  Gravitated to the Cowboys for a while, then went to the Colts when Peyton was there.  I still follow him with the Broncos, but honestly I really don't have an NFL team that I follow closely.  Getting fed up with the way the NFL has become politicized and how the players are excused for their actions (see the current Ray Rice scandal) just because of their talent and star power.

College football: 

Obviously UT.  Also Army for obvious reasons.  Enjoyed watching Michigan State when a local kid from Powell was playing there.  Still enjoy watching them at times.  They are really the only BigHoweverManySchoolsThereAreInThatLeagueNow team that plays similar to SEC teams.  I also like Mark Dantonio a lot.  He's a class guy.  I actually met him when he was recruiting the kid from Powell when he was still at Cincinnati, right before he was hired by MSU.  And the kid from Powell, whom he offered the day he got the MSU job, was actually his first "commitment" as MSU's coach.  Pretty neat story there.

Pro basketball:

Grew up as an ABA fan.  My Dad used to travel Kentucky/Virginia/North Carolina on business, and when I got the opportunity to travel with him we would go see Colonels, Squires, Cougars games.  First saw Dr. J in the ABA.  When the ABA/NBA merged I became a Sixers fan.  Haven't watched an NBA game since Jordan retired, so I really don't have a favorite team now.

College basketball:

Obviously UT.  Grew up going to Stokley twice a week during the season.

Also a lifelong Duke fan.  I've told the story before that when I was in college in North Carolina all of my baseball team mates were either Carolina or NCState fans.  In order to be different, I "adopted" Duke to be different.  That was in the days of Mike Gminiski and Jim Spanarkle.  Had some pretty good teams then.  And since Coach K has been there, obviously they have been successful, and the fact that Coach K is a West Point grad has only made my support for Duke basketball stronger.  I have a ton of respect for Coach K.  Every year he and Bobby Knight go back to West Point and do a leadership weekend with a few Cadets.  My son was fortunate to have been a part of one of those weekends, and he still to this day says that is one of the highlights of his 4 years at West Point.  Every few months he still - 5 years later - gets a handwritten note from Coach K and Knight offering their encouragement and continued support.  Never understood the hate for Coach K.  He does things the right way and is obviously a great college basketball coach.  I've been to probably 20 games at Cameron Indoor over the past 35 years.  It's an incredible atmosphere.

Hockey: 

Not a huge NHL fan, but I do enjoy going to Preds games when I am in Nashville, and I have been to a few Bruins games since my son married a Boston girl and her family are huge Bruins fans.  It's a great sport to watch live, not so much on TV. 



Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: midtnvol on July 31, 2014, 11:00:51 EDT
Baseball-San Francisco Baseball Giants and anybody vs the Dodgers
Football-New York Football Giants and anyone vs Dallas.
Basketball-None or anyone vs Lakers.
Hockey-Preds and anyone vs Detroit.
College sports-Tennessee Football and all other sports though I don't keep up with much except basketball some, MTSU Football.


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: Black Diamond Vol on August 01, 2014, 12:54:00 EDT
Baseball: Was a Yankees fan for a long time, but these days I find myself gravitating to the Red Sox.  Bawstun Strong!

NFL:  Longtime Cowboys fan, but the Seahawks are coming on strong.

NHL:  Don't really follow it, but I see a lot of Red Wings flags out on the road (God knows why), so I guess that's my team.

NBA:  Lifelong, diehard Cavs fan.  Seriously.

College:  ROW TAHD!  Been a fan for a long, long time.  You know, since 2007.  Next to the Dear Leader Saban, Harvey Updike is my hero.  Of course, come basketball season, it's all about those Cayutz.  Cal is the second coming of Wooden.


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: GreggO on August 01, 2014, 04:14:59 EDT
Baseball: Was a Yankees fan for a long time, but these days I find myself gravitating to the Red Sox.  Bawstun Strong!

NFL:  Longtime Cowboys fan, but the Seahawks are coming on strong.

NHL:  Don't really follow it, but I see a lot of Red Wings flags out on the road (God knows why), so I guess that's my team.

NBA:  Lifelong, diehard Cavs fan.  Seriously.

College:  ROW TAHD!  Been a fan for a long, long time.  You know, since 2007.  Next to the Dear Leader Saban, Harvey Updike is my hero.  Of course, come basketball season, it's all about those Cayutz.  Cal is the second coming of Wooden.


Bartender, I'll have whatever he's having!                             :run:


G


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: PirateVOL on August 01, 2014, 04:32:03 EDT

Bartender, I'll have whatever he's having!                             :run:


G
I thought he had drank all that Citron or whatever years ago.  Must have retained a stash


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: VinnieVOL on August 01, 2014, 04:38:00 EDT
Baseball: Was a Yankees fan for a long time, but these days I find myself gravitating to the Red Sox.  Bawstun Strong!

NFL:  Longtime Cowboys fan, but the Seahawks are coming on strong.

NHL:  Don't really follow it, but I see a lot of Red Wings flags out on the road (God knows why), so I guess that's my team.

NBA:  Lifelong, diehard Cavs fan.  Seriously.

College:  ROW TAHD!  Been a fan for a long, long time.  You know, since 2007.  Next to the Dear Leader Saban, Harvey Updike is my hero.  Of course, come basketball season, it's all about those Cayutz.  Cal is the second coming of Wooden.

Lol, right... we Cowboys fans are bandwagoners... because they've been so dominant over the last 15 years.   :dielaughing:

Hey, I won't deny that I got hooked on the Cowboys during their early 90's run.  But I for one have stayed the course. Frankly, I don't think the Cowboys belong in that bandwagon category anymore because they've suxed for so long.  But they're still the team everyone loves to talk about how much they hate, so idk.  I think it's funny.

Dont watch NHL or MLB and have zero interest.  It was fun watching the Heat go down in flames in regards to the NBA, that's pretty much the extent of my interest there.

Vols football has been a way of life all my life, as my Dad has bled orange all his life too.  My earliest personal memory is watching the he'85 Sugar Bowl on tv on my sisters lap.  I remember being struck by how excited everyone in the room was by how that game played out and it left an enduring impression on me.


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: HerbTarlekVol on August 01, 2014, 05:01:24 EDT
Lol, right... we Cowboys fans are bandwagoners... because they've been so dominant over the last 15 years.   :dielaughing:

Hey, I won't deny that I got hooked on the Cowboys during their early 90's run.  But I for one have stayed the course. Frankly, I don't think the Cowboys belong in that bandwagon category anymore because they've suxed for so long.  But they're still the team everyone loves to talk about how much they hate, so idk.  I think it's funny.

Dont watch NHL or MLB and have zero interest.  It was fun watching the Heat go down in flames in regards to the NBA, that's pretty much the extent of my interest there.

Vols football has been a way of life all my life, as my Dad has bled orange all his life too.  My earliest personal memory is watching the he'85 Sugar Bowl on tv on my sisters lap.  I remember being struck by how excited everyone in the room was by how that game played out and it left an enduring impression on me.

Hey Vinnie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHa4hUTWydw



Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: Clockwork Orange on August 01, 2014, 05:07:15 EDT
Lol, right... we Cowboys fans are bandwagoners... because they've been so dominant over the last 15 years.   :dielaughing:

Hey, I won't deny that I got hooked on the Cowboys during their early 90's run.  But I for one have stayed the course. Frankly, I don't think the Cowboys belong in that bandwagon category anymore because they've suxed for so long.  But they're still the team everyone loves to talk about how much they hate, so idk.  I think it's funny.


I think the Cowboys remain the NFL's Yankees despite their struggles. For whatever reason they draw fans from all over who have no good reason to follow the Cowboys. But when it comes to pro teams, I may chuckle at people but mainly I just don't care. If you grew up in a town/state with no pro team I can't blame you for picking one to follow, whatever the reason behind it.


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: RockinGrannyVol on August 01, 2014, 05:14:20 EDT
Baseball:  Atlanta Braves - can't remember, forever ago

Football:  Where ever Peyton is playing and the Atlanta Falcons -- since I moved to GA in 1985

Hockey: YUCK!

Basketball:  YUCK Again

Born and raised a Tennessee Volunteer!   No other college can compare....if my grandchildren play sports at another college, I will always cheer for them, but will never be a fan of any college other than TENNESSEE!!   GO BIG ORANGE!  WOO!


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: VinnieVOL on August 01, 2014, 05:42:46 EDT
Hey Vinnie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHa4hUTWydw



Gonna bookmark that one.  :thumbup:

Oh yeah, I'm also a fan of whoever Peyton is playing for as my secondary NFL team.


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: Creek Walker on August 01, 2014, 06:18:28 EDT
Lol, right... we Cowboys fans are bandwagoners... because they've been so dominant over the last 15 years.   :dielaughing:

Hey, I won't deny that I got hooked on the Cowboys during their early 90's run.  But I for one have stayed the course. Frankly, I don't think the Cowboys belong in that bandwagon category anymore because they've suxed for so long.  But they're still the team everyone loves to talk about how much they hate, so idk.  I think it's funny.

Dont watch NHL or MLB and have zero interest.  It was fun watching the Heat go down in flames in regards to the NBA, that's pretty much the extent of my interest there.

Vols football has been a way of life all my life, as my Dad has bled orange all his life too.  My earliest personal memory is watching the he'85 Sugar Bowl on tv on my sisters lap.  I remember being struck by how excited everyone in the room was by how that game played out and it left an enduring impression on me.

If you really wanted to be nasty, you could've pointed out the irony of a Braves fan poking fun at the Cowboys' bandwagoners.  :biggrin:


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: VinnieVOL on August 01, 2014, 07:15:46 EDT
If you really wanted to be nasty, you could've pointed out the irony of a Braves fan poking fun at the Cowboys' bandwagoners.  :biggrin:

 :rotfl:


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: volsboy on August 01, 2014, 09:55:38 EDT
Baseball- Braves since 1974. Dad took me to a game. Really got hooked during the Burroughs, Horner, Mathews era.
Pro Football- Steelers fan from Bradshaw days. Any team Peyton plays for. Titans are my favorite team right now. Hope they can put it together again and contend.
Basketball- Started as an ABA fan. Dad worked at World Trade Center. Saw Dr J play in Piscataway. Celtics are my favorite over-all.
College football- Tennessee forever. Can still hear John Ward describing one of Holloway's runs. Friends from TN High School's '72 National Championship team, David Bibee(Qb) and Gregg Jones(Lb), cemented my affection for UT by playing for the Vols.
Hockey-Nope


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: HerbTarlekVol on August 01, 2014, 10:36:29 EDT
Baseball- Braves since 1974. Dad took me to a game. Really got hooked during the Burroughs, Horner, Mathews era.
Pro Football- Steelers fan from Bradshaw days. Any team Peyton plays for. Titans are my favorite team right now. Hope they can put it together again and contend.
Basketball- Started as an ABA fan. Dad worked at World Trade Center. Saw Dr J play in Piscataway. Celtics are my favorite over-all.
College football- Tennessee forever. Can still hear John Ward describing one of Holloway's runs. Friends from TN High School's '72 National Championship team, David Bibbee(Qb) and Gregg Jones(Lb), cemented my affection for UT by playing for the Vols.
Hockey-Nope

Funny you should mention David Bibee.  I was talking to some buddies today about the all time greatest QBs who played high school football in Tennessee.  Bibee's name came up in that conversation.  I saw him play during that year.  I was in junior high school and went to see Tennessee High with a buddy of mine and his Dad, who was a high school coach. 

Saw Dr. J play in the ABA as well, both when he was with the Nets and the Squires.  Loved the ABA and loved being able to go to ABA games with my Dad when I traveled with him when he was on business. 


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: Black Diamond Vol on August 02, 2014, 01:25:06 EDT
If you really wanted to be nasty, you could've pointed out the irony of a Braves fan poking fun at the Cowboys' bandwagoners.  :biggrin:

Yeah, except I didn't just pluck the Braves ala carte off the ATL Buffet.  I bought the whole Peachtree Value Package, which also includes the Falcons and Hawks.  And I don't see too many people clamoring to jump on those bandwagons. :cool:


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: Black Diamond Vol on August 02, 2014, 01:29:18 EDT
I think the Cowboys remain the NFL's Yankees despite their struggles. For whatever reason they draw fans from all over who have no good reason to follow the Cowboys. But when it comes to pro teams, I may chuckle at people but mainly I just don't care. If you grew up in a town/state with no pro team I can't blame you for picking one to follow, whatever the reason behind it.

Heck, I even liked the Cowboys as a kid.  Those silver helmets and Stars were badass.  Then I turned 8, and I learned that there are better reasons to pick a team than their uniforms. :dance:


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: volsboy on August 02, 2014, 04:41:03 EDT
Holy cow! Back in the day, the ABA had some unbelievably athletic players, more so even than the NBA. Saw the Nets play the Kentucky Colonels, the KY team had Artis Gilmore, Dan Issel, Louie Dampier, among others. Some fun, exciting basketball was played in the ABA. And oh yeah, nobody ran the veer offense better than David Bibee in high school. That whole backfield was 1st team all-state. Gil Kyle went to GaTech, George Heath went to VaTech and Bibee to UT. Incredible team.


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: BanditVol on August 09, 2014, 07:23:12 EDT
Baseball: Braves, even before they moved to Atlanta (Spahn & Sain, Pray for rain, Eddie MAthews, Hank Aaron, etc) & Cincinnati in mid 70s while stationed in Ohio (Rose, Bench, Doggie Perez, etc era).
Football:  Da Bears historically though Baltimore in the Unitas eara was a fav.  Indy/Denver more recently for some reason ...
Hockey:....Could give a rats ...
Basketball: From Russell to Bird The Boston Celtics!
Born and bred BIG ORANGE!!

Wow.  When DID the Braves move, because I don't even remember that.  Oldtimer.   :biggrin:


Title: Re: Bored poll...
Post by: BanditVol on August 09, 2014, 07:46:41 EDT
Pro football - my father grew up in the Florida panhandle, so some of my earliest memories are watching with him the classic Griese and Czonka teams of the mid-70s.  Thus I grew up a Dolphins fan.  I actually do recall rooting for the Colts in the 1971  Super Bowl against Dallas, just because they had white jerseys, and when the Colts moved to Indy in the 80s I became a fan since I lived in Indiana the first 15 years of my life.  Then when the Titans moved to Tennessee I started following them a bit also.  And of course, I am partial to the Broncs so long as Peyton is there, and that is really recent.  :biggrin:

Basketball - Pacers fan from the mid 70s.  Always have been, always will be.  I like the Clippers to an extent, because they are NOT the Lakers.   :biggrin:  I almost moved to LA in 2001 and if I had I was planning to wear Clippers gear all the time and announce loudly that I would NOT want to be seen on the sideline of Lakers games and that Jack Nicholson can kiss my ass anyway.   :naughty:

Baseball - grew up a Reds fan and still follow them a bit.  Not a huge baseball fan though, so basically I just check the standings every now and then, but haven't even really been doing that lately.

College football - Huge Vol fan though I evolved into it.  Was a casual fan upon moving to Knoxville in 1982, then became a real fan upon enrollment in 1985, but still had divided loyalties because I was a huge Notre Dame fan starting in 1977.   :biggrin:   Switched loyalty completely to Tennessee in the 1991 "miracle in South Bend" because I didn't like the announcers dissing Tennessee. Nowadays Purdue has replaced ND as no. 2 since I got a grad degree from Purdue.

Hockey - used to like the Indy Whalers of the old WHL, but they are long gone.  I only watch hockey during the Olympics, but if I had to pick a team it would be the Preds for obvious reasons.