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I know... I know, I know.  I'm me and yes this is a really off topic thing.  But I just gotta share this and encourage any of y'all who have young'uns to introduce them to HAMILTON.  Listen to these children who've embraced the show... singing stuff like, "I've been reading 'Common Sense' by Thomas Payne" and "We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal"... "how lucky we are to be alive right now"... theatre is transformative and this particular show is "historic" in more ways than one.  Listen to the words... three teenage girls go to Manhattan (one of whom becomes the future Mrs. Alexander Hamilton) to peruse the fellas during the founding of a great nation.  So good.  Get to know this show if you love American History and share it with the kids.  My daughter has aced American History tests BECAUSE OF THIS MUSICAL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=187&v=nrvs_rIEZWQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=187&v=nrvs_rIEZWQ)

I remember the whole class in UT's American history class humming the School House Rock version of the Preamble to the Constitution during a test.

HA!!!  Yes!!!  That's a great example of creative teaching.  I swear, if someone can really engage a kid ONE time on history, the rest will follow.  When it's just taught like "on this date, this happened", I hated it.  But I was in a production of a musical called "1776" about the signing of the Declaration of Independence and I became obsessed with the story and the men involved.  It's really awesome watching these kids pretend to be Jefferson and Hamilton during the big debate scenes.  Ava's got the whole score memorized.  :-)

She going to follow you into theater?

I love the musical. It is great. But the thing that bothers me is that it furthers the liberal agenda and contributes to the browning of America. No matter how they do remakes of historical movies or events, they can't change history. It is what it is. A lot of our forefathers were slave owners. They can't rewrite that in a play or movie script. The browner this country gets, the more third world it will get. Sorry if liberals don't like those facts.

Thank GOD she's not interested!!!  :-)  I pray she makes an actual LIVING for a living!  :-)

Response deleted.  You don't deserve a response.

 :wtf:

Sorry..drunken post from Sturgis Rally.

I had to google to see what the concern was.  It turns out, Hamilton is played by a minority.  Ohhhh...now I get it.   :rolleyes:


But hey, Matt Damon is apparently Chinese.  Haven't heard the Chinese threaten to go to war over that just yet.    :dielaughing:

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/aug/05/zhang-yimou-defends-casting-of-matt-damon-in-the-great-wall

More on Hamilton

http://volstothewall.com/board/index.php?topic=34498.0

Moved to politvol   :naughty:

Friends don't let friends drink and post.  :wtf:

I am guilty. Total idiot.

Just thought I would leave this link here.

No comments necessary. 

  http://www.allenbwest.com/matt-palumbo/typical-hamilton-cast-slammed-pence-diversity-look-found

I heard about that this morning on Fox and just rolled my eyes.

But reading the actual comments in that link, the actor didn't say anything that bad.  That he felt he had to is silly, and frankly the premise of making all the actors non-white I also find silly (while the only white character is King George).

The entire play is apparently a political statement that "people of color" in the US still feel the need to be liberated from "white oppression", which I find ludicrous, but they are entitled to their POV, no matter how silly.

And cue Politvol in 3, 2, ....  :naughty:

Sure you'll defend this, too, then:


http://www.allenbwest.com/analytical-economist/actor-lectured-pence-probably-wishes-never-tweeted

Defend? Do you read ANYTHING before you post?

Go back to my post.  This is what I said:  That he felt he had to is silly, and frankly the premise of making all the actors non-white I also find silly (while the only white character is King George).

I said I thought it was silly, and also mentioned the non-white actors.  Which, BTW, I posted to Politvol way back on August 9:

http://volstothewall.com/board/index.php?topic=34498.0

I really wonder about you HTK.  That you would state I was defending the actor when I called him silly.... I don't even have a response for that.  Seriously!  :confused: :wtf:

@HTK

And just to explain my comment that what the actor said was "not that bad" (by which I meant offensive):

“We have a message for you sir and we hope you will hear us out…Vice President-elect Pence we welcome you and we truly thank you for joining us at Hamilton an American musical, we really do. We, sir, we are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights, sir. But we truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf all of us. All of us.”

He was so in his face, with all the name calling and abuse!  Or....not.   :dielaughing:

Which explains why Fox news chose to talk about the incident without showing or quoting what he actually said, which was completely inoffensive.

That the actor thought he had to say this, and chose to do so, is silly IMO. I don't find anything disrespectful in the quote.

So, you are ok with paying patrons being called out and lectured? 

Yeah, like I said, defend away. 

Remember this quote:

“Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won.” – President Obama to House Republican Whip Eric Cantor, January 23, 2009.

Seems like the left can dish it out, but can't take it when the shoe is on the other foot. 

But by all means, justify away .............

"Love and tolerance, as long as you agree with us..."   :rolleyes:

The selective outrage of politics is exhausting, transparent and an insult to anyone with a modicum of intelligence, frankly.  Tantaro's rant on Fox was the biggest load of horse shizzle I've ever watched.  Sure, be offended if you must but I find this to be one of the stupidest fake scandals ever... same with the "offense" of the act... FAKE.  Give Trump credit, he's smarter than I thought... this is a HUGE diversion from the Trump U. crap.  Well played.  

A.  The post show speech.

Post show speeches (and pre show speeches) have been happening as long as I've been a professional actor (32 years).  If you are offended by them I strongly suggest you stay away from Broadway where for weeks (I believe twice a year) after every performance the cast makes an appeal to raise funds for Equity Fights Aids.  (Actors' Equity is our union).  Needless to say, there are a lot of homosexuals in this business and AIDS took quite a toll back in the day, and the fund has done wonderful things.  But especially considering the particular cause, I suggest a couple of you NEVER go to Broadway.  You'll clearly be offended by that agenda, as well.  Avoid at all costs.

Also, sometimes when a person of note passes, casts often do a tribute after the show... as with this when THE COLOR PURPLE honored Prince.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6KUTL0PXl0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6KUTL0PXl0)

I assure you there were post show speeches after 9/11, after Hurricane Sandy... and the post show speech in HAMILTON was gentle and classy, if you have a problem with it... bless your lily livered heart.  Pence himself has said he was in no way offended.  Seriously.  They thanked him for coming and pleaded with him to consider THEM... especially considering Pence's DISGUSTING anti-LGBT history.  It's HORRID.  It was respectful, it was gentle, it was NOT aggressive and if Pence was REALLY smart, he would have capitalized on it and gone and shaked the man's hand and said, "I appreciate your comments and thank you for a great show.".  

B.  The casting notice.  Good fizzleING grief.  The show was written to tell the story of our founders, most especially, with a cast that looked NOTHING like the founders.  THAT.IS.THE.POINT.  As was the point with THE WIZ.  As was the point with the all black cast of A CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF.  And of course there's THE COLOR PURPLE, PURLIE, AIN'T MISBEHAVIN', ONCE ON THIS ISLAND, FENCES, SHUFFLE ALONG, A RAISIN IN THE SUN, DREAMGIRLS, FENCES, JITNEY, BRING IN 'DA NOISE BRING IN 'DA FUNK, AIN'T MISBEHAVIN'... among others, ALL 100% black casts.  

This is NOTHING new.  All white shows have DOMINATED theatre nationwide for decades, and this big azz hit comes along and suddenly the poor oppressed white actors want in on the party.  Tough.  It was written to be exactly what it is, hence it's success.  

When black men are playing slave owning founders, it SAYS SOMETHING.  It's remarkably effective and has a lot to do with the historic success of the piece.

Ugh.  I'm so sick to death of the bullshizzle.  But please, be "offended".  It's SOOOOO convincing.  

Finally, the plea was from THE ENTIRE CAST AND CREW.  The actor playing Hamilton is HIV positive, and this industry is a very tight-nit family.  In my 32 years doing this, I've never seen my family more scared.  A friend today had a terrible experience a the church he's been attending for a long time, with his partner.  And he was treated very badly, for the first time ever, today.  Gosh, I wonder where that came from?  This election has galvanized all of us and we are going to fight like Hell.  I will defend them forever.  I hope that offends some of you because from some, that offense let's me know I'm on the right track... I love my family.

So sick of the bullshizzle from both sides, seriously.

What speaks volumes is that Pence was not offended. But some of his supporters are apparently some really sensitive snowflakes.  :naughty:

a man who apologizes is the biggest of men.  You're a good dude.

Not accurate, Pence chose not to comment.  That is NOT the same as not being offended.  Pence showed more character than the cast of Hamilton, or their defenders.

"I wasn't offended, I'll leave it to others if it was the appropriate venue to say it."

Mike Pence

No offense to anyone, offended or unoffended, but this thread is walking.

It's great that Pence wasn't offended. Frankly, I think the incoming Whiner In Chief needs to stop his twitter-bitching about it and move on. He is never going to be an effective president until he learns to act presidential, and being presidential means taking the high road.

The cast of Hamilton lectured Pence on their viewpoints, and Pence wasn't offended. That's great. What's interesting is that, in the past, Pence has lectured his constituents on his viewpoints re: gay marriage, and the LGBT sympathizers have verbally castrated him over it, claiming that they're afraid of what a Trump-Pence administration means for them.

Tolerance works both ways. Unfortunately, I think Vinnie nailed it. That's the current political climate in America.

That't not the point. 

So, you take it upon yourself to lecture your paying patrons on political matters? 

he took the high road, as opposed to the hypocrites on stage

I think it's funny that the cast thinks so highly of themselves that they feel its their duty to bestow their infinite wisdom upon the audience. Maybe they should just STFU and remember the real reason people came to see them.

It's a play, not a political debate

It's even funnier when you consider the actual positions of Hamilton vs the positions of the lecturers on stage
One wonders how many of the Federalist Papers the ensemble have read? :naughty:

I think that thing that drives me nuts faster than anything is when people feel like they are a lot smarter than others and they need to educate them. If I don't have ability to speak about a topic without embarrassing myself, I keep my mouth shut.

I have a binder at my house that contains all of the Federalist Papers, in order. I've had it for about 20 years. I've had both of my boys read them, all of them, so they would be able to form their own opinions on government. It's the best thing I've done for them, they are very astute when it comes to politics.

Good Gracious almighty - Hamilton sounds like one big gigantic, politically correct, circle jerk.  MFer, why did I have to read this thread and find that out.  All this time I thought the play was about a minor character from the show "Maggie & the Ferocious Beast".  That would have been way cooler.  Also, some of y'all need a reality check - the actor basically called Pence a racist, bigot, and misogynist.   Yea, yea, yea, he didn't use those words specifically, but he took the pretentious, arrogant, high-brow road to do nothing more than low brow insult him.  Ahhh, but he did it in such a moving, artistic, and touching way - ugh.  Meh, it's a small price to pay NOT to have that white witch in da' house.

Oh, it IS the point if you wrongfully claim he chose not to comment.  He did comment.  If you're offended, scratch theatre off your list, and start with Shakespeare's history plays.  They'll likely make you wet your diaper.  The door is unlocked and you can walk right out without your lily white delicate ears being abused (as could Pence, but good for him for listening).  If you feel the cost of that ticket preserves you from differing viewpoints, (especially in for-profit theatre like Broadway) you clearly don't understand the essential purpose of "art".  Stick with sports.

and hence the reason stage shows are dying....

 “The theater is the only institution in the world which has been dying for four thousand years and has never succumbed. It requires tough and devoted people to keep it alive.”

― John Steinbeck, Once There Was a War

No, he went on a morning talk show and literally said "I was not offended". 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/20/politics/mike-pence-hamilton-message-trump/

As much as the right (of which I consider myself a member) likes to complain that liberals "ignore facts"...pot meet kettle.   :biggrin:

And again, if he isn't why should I be?

I do find the comments condescending and biased, but I also read his comments and see real fear.  If he and his ilk are afraid (and for no good reason IMO) then it would not hurt at all for Pence or Trump (but don't hold your breath on that one) to reassure them.  Might even breed unity, who knows?

I do agree about how the other side has treated Pence though.  I will provide details later.

See, I agree with Buchanan

While I find the remarks by the cast unoffensive and I don't have any moral outrage about them, they definitely exhibit the ability of the left to project its own insecurities on to everyone else, and act like their (IMO relatively minor) problems are the only ones that matter, and above all, be condescending (and undeservedly so!).


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/11/22/a_besieged_trump_presidency_ahead_132412.html


The arrogance, the assumed posture of moral superiority, the conceit of our cultural elite, on exhibit on that stage Friday night, is what Americans regurgitated when they voted for Donald Trump.