VTTW Board Index

First NCAA tourny loss at home.  :banghead:

My opinion with regards to Holy has only intensified  :thumbdown:

Actually 2 records.....Oregon State had never beaten UT until today.

And....this is the first time they have missed the Sweet 16 two years in a row.

It's time.

Looks like whatever momentum was left over from the end of Pat's tenure - during which she was not 100% anyway - is about gone. 

I think Phil is going to take his time replacing Holly though.  But will he, or can he, find someone better?  I hope so.  We were the UCLA of the women's program until that douche in Connecticut came along.  We need to get back to that, and that inclues routinely beating UConn in the tourney.

I wonder if Coach Knight wants to come out of retirement?    :dielaughing:

Seriously though...he would whip them in shape, for sure.  but might also punch a lady player.   :laugh:

Yep....Just saw this on ESPN. So make that 3 records Holly broke in 1 day.

 "It's the second straight season that Tennessee lost in the second round of the NCAAs and will miss the Sweet 16 in back-to-back seasons for the first time in the program's 37-year tournament history."

Would you say it's a more attractive job now than when Holly took over?  I mean, I could see how some candidates wouldn't have wanted to follow Pat.

Do they look outside the LV family?

She's obviously not a candidate for UT right now (seeing as she's still playing), but Candace Parker has impressed me in her analyst role this week. She may have a coaching career in her future.

When it's all said and done, Holly might have as many records as Pat.  :banghead:

JMO.....But I actually believe Pat wanted Holly to take over the program as a caretaker of the program until Tyler was ready to come and coach at the school that has his Mothers name on it....And of course he royally screwed that up. I don't think Pat wanted the chance that UT would hire a successful coach that would win big and be at UT for years because it would upset the Tyler to take over the program applecart. I can't believe that Pat Summitt knew or thought Holly would be the best fit for the program......If Pat wanted the best coach why didn't she recommend Mickey DeMoss.....DeMoss sat next to Pat for years Holly didn't.

I don't remember the year he left but the I don't the program has been the same since Al Brown left. Maybe it's just a coincidence but even Pat's last years weren't great.

You are 100% correct.

I looked it up.  he left in 2002.

I hadn't thought about it, but yes, it probably is more attractive now. 

I say we look for the best coach possible if Fulmer decides to make a change.

I appreciate what Holly has done as an athlete and coach. Phil needs to take his time and get a replacement,  regardless of connection to the program.

Here's the deal with women's sports: not nearly as many women play. That means there aren't many players. One program can corner the market. Do that, and you're unstoppable.

I think we need to acknowledge an uncomfortable possibility: Pat's condition, and subsequently the program's downfall, began a lot earlier than we think. I think she was coaching the LV's in a diminished mental state long before anyone knew- probably even Pat herself. Look how fast her condition deteriorated as soon as she made the announcement.  Alzheimer's doesn't work THAT fast. Even when she was still winning NCs with those uber-talented Parker-led teams, I remember thinking that she didn't look as animated or engaged on the sidelines as she used to. At the time, I just chalked it up to her mellowing with age. Now, I'm not so sure.

I agree.  My father had dementia, and looking back there were signs even before any of us realized that there was an issue.  Very subtle clues were there, but went unrecognized for several years before the realization struck that he was having real issues.

Completely agree with that -- but the fact is that Holly is recruiting lights out, but has not developed that talent, IMO.   As much as some of our freshmen have played this year....they should be seasoned by now and not making the mistakes they continue to make.    Their first quarter yesterday started off great -- why they stop doing what's working, I have no idea.   I may be just a dummy.....but that's how I see it.   Anyway, I don't think Fulmer will do anything about Holly for a while longer, which is sad.  But I have a major issue with her calling out the fans and acting like it's directed toward the players -- hell, it's ALL directed at her....period.  Time for Holly to go!

Good post and agree......What happened yesterday that sent us into the tank is they went to a zone defense and WE DO NOT have a clue how to attack a zone except dribble around the 3 point line and then fire up a brick. This has been a issue for at least 3 years and why that coach for OSU started out in a man defense yesterday is a real head scratcher......Teams that beat us has figured this out and play us a zone. If that OSU coach had looked at any tape at all he would have known that......And in fine UT fashion when something positive happens it turns into a negative for us.....The reason they went to a zone yesterday is because their big post player got 2 quick fouls and he went to a zone to protect her....It protected her and got our butts beat in the process.

So Butch 2.0

Oh, in no way was I trying to make excuses for Holly. This long downturn may have begun under Pat, but it has only accelerated under her successor. It's past time to make a change.

BTW, my first call would go to this guy:

http://gocards.com/coaches.aspx?rc=487&path=wbball

I understood BDV'S post to be more about why the last few years under Pat may not have been topical for her teams.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, BDV.

I agree with this. I think the first look would be to Matthew Mitchell at Kentucky but I would pass. Something is off at Kentucky. They had several players leave in the last two years and it doesn't smell right.

I was really high on Mitchell up until a couple years ago. His stock has definitely fallen.

We're still one of the two marquee names in the sport. I would think we can get most anyone we want, within reason (i.e., anyone but Geno).

IMO the issue is I doubt we'd pay top dollar for some of the top coaches....Mulkey makes around 1.6 million....about the same for the ND coach...Guy at Louisville is around $900,000 and Holly is at $650,000. Don't see the Louisville coach coming for less than 1 point something million. He has built the Louisville program from pretty much the ground up....has good facilities and the attendance is now about the same as UT since they have dropped so much with Holly and her clown show. We are paying Butch to not coach and Currie to not be the AD so I'm not sure UT will pony up for a women's BB coach and a program that lost 2 million dollars last year.

Our program has been one of the most profitable in the NCAA the last 2-3 years.

http://www.rockytopinsider.com/2017/07/15/tennessee-was-most-profitable-sec-football-program-last-year/

$80 million profit in 2016...we owe Butch $8.2 million.  Still way ahead.   :nod:

Also Currie is likely to settle

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/sports/college/university-of-tennessee/football/2018/03/04/ut-vols-tennessee-football-john-currie-phil-fulmer-butch-jones-fired-suspended-ad-settlement/358869002/


Bottom line...UT can afford to pay for coaches right now, and it would be a good investment in the future.  If we can't open the bank up a bit for the Lady's basketball program, then we need to just fold up shop.  We owe that to Pat.

Don't see UT paying a coach a million plus on a program that's losing 2 million.....Ticket sales and donations are down and a lot of that has to do with TV contracts and most games being on TV and people staying home and watching rather than going....I had season football tickets for years when UT wasn't on TV much....when most and now all games are on TV I gave the tickets up in 1996 and haven't looked back.....Also a lot of the LVs fandom was because of Pat....people watched because of Pat. When she was not longer there they pretty much went away with her. I know several here including my Mom and Dad when my Dad was still living never missed a LVs game on TV when Pat was coaching....After Pat stepped down they stopped watching and till this day I have to tell my Mom if they won or lost because she doesn't keep up with them anymore. You'd be surprised how many others did the same after Pat was no longer coaching.

I don't doubt it, but it goes beyond the money.  It's a matter of pride. We were THE Lady's program for many years, and we should maintain that tradition.

I think that when Pat was here, we did make a small amount from the Lady's team, but that was exceptional. I am pretty sure that the great majority of women's basketball programs are financial losers.  U Conn is probably one exception.  There may not be any others.

Bottom line...it's not about money with the Lady Vols basketball program.  Or it shouldn't be. 

This LV team has a lot of talent. But it doesn't have that one great player that is capable of winning the National player of the year award. The last player of that caliber was Candace Parker. The best LV teams always had that POY player or two like Holdsclaw and Catchings and then Parker. There have been no great players since Parker. Look at all the championship contenders at other schools since Parker left. Most of them have that POY candidate, teams like UConn, Baylor, SCar and Miss St. Vols haven't had that. I saw that in the SECT game against SCar. Aja Wilson would go out and the Vols would climb back in the game. Put her back in and they increased the led again right away. They would have had two more regular season losses if she had played in either of their games against the Vols. she missed them both. Put that on top of Holly not being able to coach X's and O's or motivate a team and we are where we are at now.

You are 100% correct and I've said the same going back to Pat's last few years.....For years we had that one dominate player that could create their own offense and put the team on their back....we haven't had that player for years now. When's the last time you remember a UConn that didn't have that player that could get them 25-30 points per game and the same for the other top programs such as ND...Baylor....Miss State...USC. We recruit a top class last season full of Mac D All-Americans and we can't shoot for crap and miss layups by the dozens. Unreal.