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Sports => VTTW Message Board => Topic started by: Tnphil on October 12, 2021, 03:16:15 EDT



Title: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Tnphil on October 12, 2021, 03:16:15 EDT
 :bird: LV if true


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Creek Walker on October 12, 2021, 03:42:24 EDT
Agree. Another nail in the NFL's coffin for me. Not that the NFL will miss me. I haven't watched more than a handful of games since the league became so politicized...and I won't.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Coupe De VOL on October 12, 2021, 03:58:28 EDT
I’m really pissed Gruden did not fight this insane nonsense, but I guess he resigned in order to give his players a decent chance at a successful season. 

Fuccck the NFL and fuccck the hypocrite, sham of propagandists called the news media.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 12, 2021, 04:07:14 EDT
:bird: LV if true

Wait, what? Another "private sector" billionaire caving to social pressure? The Davis boy. What's his name? This is unfair!   :dunno:


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 12, 2021, 04:20:42 EDT
fizzle Gruden!


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 12, 2021, 04:23:30 EDT
Agree. Another nail in the NFL's coffin for me. Not that the NFL will miss me. I haven't watched more than a handful of games since the league became so politicized...and I won't.

The NFL is the reason we have college football as it exists. Durn y'all!


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 12, 2021, 04:28:55 EDT
In the email, Gruden said NFLPA President DeMaurice Smith had “lips the size of Michelin tires.” Which is considered by many to be a racist trope about black people.
*
There is no mistake in the racism. Next you people will defend Urban Meyer!


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Coupe De VOL on October 12, 2021, 04:46:46 EDT
In the email, Gruden said NFLPA President DeMaurice Smith had “lips the size of Michelin tires.” Which is considered by many to be a racist trope about black people.
*
Sounds positively Reagan-esque! There is no mistake in the racism. Next you people will defend Urban Meyer!

I’m glad we have mind readers around like you to convict him.  Keep on with your racial (racist) crusade oh Social Justice Warrior!   


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Creek Walker on October 12, 2021, 05:25:57 EDT
This one is going to be locked in a hurry.  :dielaughing:

I seriously doubt that Jon Gruden is a racist person. He has spent his entire career in a profession that is dominated by black people, and the only evidence we have that he's "a racist" is a single disparaging comment that he made in an email apparently sent in a fit of anger nearly 10 years ago?

People say dumb stuff all the time. Sometimes they mean it, sometimes they're just flying off the handle. Sometimes the things people say is indefensible. And sometimes they say it over and over because they're not nice people. Gruden's comments were indefensible. The problem is that in this era of social justice we've shifted into a mindset that it's okay to destroy someone's livelihood because we disagree with them. Social media has created a vehicle for relentless assault on whichever target the SJWs set their sights on. The end game isn't justice where individual people are concerned. The end game is forcing conformity to a specific set of "societal norms." The problem is who gets to determine what "societal norms" are? Most reasonable people — and I suspect that would include Jon Gruden — can agree that it's not okay to use stereotypes to describe the physical appearance of any race or demographic. And most reasonable people — again, I suspect Gruden is among them — would agree that it's not okay to use offensive slurs to describe gay people. But lest we forget, there have been efforts that are becoming increasingly mainstream to define anyone who supports Donald Trump as a racist/misogynist/homophobe. There are people out there who say you have no business owning a professional sports team if you're a Trump supporter. Or that you have no business in Hollywood if you're a Trump supporter. I'm not a Trump supporter, but is that okay? Hardly.

Gruden should've known better and he deserves repercussions for what he said, even if it was a decade ago. But imagine if this era of social justice had been around in the '90s. There was a rather popular ESPN commentator who stereotyped all of Appalachia when he referred to UT fans' outrage over the Heisman debacle in '97 as "trailer trash." It was a dumb, insensitive thing for Chris Fowler to say. Plenty of UT fans called for ESPN to fire him. They were wrong. Fowler deserved to apologize. He did that. He also needed to broaden his perspective a little bit (no idea if he did that). But he didn't deserve to be fired. Gruden has a lot of fences to mend. Deservedly so. But destroying a man over a point of view, even if it's a point of view that most of us don't espouse? Good grief, what are we becoming?


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: tshadow on October 12, 2021, 06:14:46 EDT
Yep. It will probably be locked (I'm not a mind reader). I have not watched an NFL game since the league went bonkers. Here is a thought... I wonder how many of those wonderboys vote? I bet it's 50% or less than the population at large.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: tshadow on October 12, 2021, 06:16:54 EDT
Ten years ago? Let's investigate everyone and prove what we all already know... none of us is perfect.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 12, 2021, 06:25:03 EDT
Ten years ago? Let's investigate everyone and prove what we all already know... none of us is perfect.

Somebody is out to get him. Boo hoo! :frownyface:


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 12, 2021, 06:32:16 EDT
I’m glad we have mind readers around like you to convict him.  Keep on with your racial (racist) crusade oh Social Justice Warrior!   

"Social Justice Warrior" lol. Gruden pissed off somebody holding the evidence. Too bad. How sad. Maybe he can come be an analyst at UT now.  :biggrin:


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 12, 2021, 06:37:09 EDT
He resigned btw. Other highly inappropriate emails emerged. You can't represent an organization at that level and pull that shizzle. Ever! Shame on you fragile people.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Creek Walker on October 12, 2021, 06:44:10 EDT
Shame on you fragile people.

Nothing says fragile like supporting the termination and damnation of anyone who says anything you disagree with.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: tshadow on October 12, 2021, 06:49:38 EDT
He resigned btw. Other highly inappropriate emails emerged. You can't represent an organization at that level and pull that shizzle. Ever! Shame on you fragile people.
Shame for what? I can promise you if there came a time for me to change my perspective or opinion it would not be to your way of thinking.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: tshadow on October 12, 2021, 06:58:20 EDT
Somebody is out to get him. Boo hoo! :frownyface:
I don't know the first thing about What Gruden or Urban is going through. What I have a problem with is prosecuting the unprosecutable. There is such a thing as due process and within due process, there is what is known as the statute of limitations. I know it's folks like you that strain at the gnat and swallow the camel such as when the dems tried to impeach Trump while he was out of office! YES! when your ilk operates in this manner... I have a problem with it.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: volsboy on October 12, 2021, 04:45:53 EDT
Don't feel sorry for Gruden. It sucks that he had to resign. But he should have never put stupidity in writing. On the other hand no person of color has ever said anything racist. They have never called us, white boy, honkey, cracker or anything like that. The hypocrisy is embarrassing. I would guarantee Smith has said worse.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Tnphil on October 12, 2021, 05:57:58 EDT
It was a resign or be fired deal....Gruden had 6 years at 10 million per year left on his contract.....would be interesting to know how much of that was worked out.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: tshadow on October 12, 2021, 06:20:25 EDT
Don't feel sorry for Gruden. It sucks that he had to resign. But he should have never put stupidity in writing. On the other hand no person of color has ever said anything racist. They have never called us, white boy, honkey, cracker or anything like that. The hypocrisy is embarrassing. I would guarantee Smith has said worse.
When principles are trampled we are all diminished.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: droner on October 12, 2021, 06:28:40 EDT
Let me make sure we understand each other. This thread approaches removal as it is.

But outright political discussion debating political parties, elected officials, ideologies or related issues will get the quick boot.

Don't we hear and see enough of that on TV, online and from every person with an opinion? Not here.

Surely we have more pleasant things to talk about. 


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Coupe De VOL on October 12, 2021, 06:35:28 EDT
"Social Justice Warrior" lol. Gruden pissed off somebody holding the evidence. Too bad. How sad. Maybe he can come be an analyst at UT now.  :biggrin:

I was thinking the same thing - put Gruden on the staff!  :-)  The reality is too many people would protest the move even if it improbably did happen.  I'd take Gruden on the staff in a heartbeat, but yeah, he would never do that.

As for SJW, I would not be surprised in the least if Gruden had been targeted by this reporter from the NYT who was probably digging around for dirt in order to fire an old whitey coach.  The angle would be that not enough POCs are HCs and we need to take down a white coach.  It might not be the most likely scenario, but it really would not surprise me to learn this "reporter" or "journalist" (LOL) had targeted many other white HFC in the NFL.  It is kinda ironic seeeing how Oakland was the first team to hire a minority coach - Flores and then Art Shell.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Tnphil on October 12, 2021, 07:07:21 EDT
LSU would hire him and not blink a eye....they don't care.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: VinnieVOL on October 12, 2021, 08:53:20 EDT
One of my biggest issues is, you still have players collecting big checks whose ACTUAL ACTIONS have done far more damage than a few salty emails.  Yet Grudens prolly gonna be blacklisted from ever doing anything meaningful in the sport again.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: BanditVol on October 13, 2021, 02:53:30 EDT
I was originally rolling my eyes, but the comment about the lips was out of line.

Then again, it was 10 years ago and done in the heat of the moment.

What I don't know is what else they found.  The original remarks were strictly from emails to the Washington owner.  They stated without giving any examples yesterday that all a lot of Gruden's emails were turned over and there were a lot more comments. I will withhold my judgement until they all come out.

The other thing is that he called Roger Goodell a f--t and a p---y. 

a. I agree with Gruden
b. These words are offensive to be sure, but widely used as insults in the same sense as the f word (IMO)
c. his use of p--y is described as "misogynistic" and f--t as "anti gay".

So p---y is misogynistic?  Bull shizzle.  It's just a playground slur. Same with f--t, though that one is a bit more tied to gays, to be sure. 

I'm wondering how much of it is due to him specifically insulting Goodell.  Maybe Goodell just got his little feelings hurt.   :dielaughing:

Seriously though, I'd like to see what else comes out.  If it's a lot more, then maybe it was justified.  But what I mention above is all I have heard of.  Two insulting emails out of 650,000!  If that's all, then I think it speaks for itself as an overreaction

But there may be a lot more.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Creek Walker on October 13, 2021, 09:04:30 EDT

So p---y is misogynistic?  Bull shizzle.  It's just a playground slur.

This right here, 100%. I'm not so quick to defend his use of the "F word" because it's highly offensive to gay people...though in reality it's also a playground slur, just one that's even cruder than p*$$y (though that's plenty crude enough). But the idea that using the "P word" to disparage someone is misogynistic is so incredibly stupid. It's sophomoric, but it's not misogynistic.

I also don't think using racially-motivated stereotypes to insult someone — while highly offensive and insensitive and unbecoming for anyone who is even attempting to be professional — is racist. I think we've forgotten what the definition of the word "racist" is.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: volsboy on October 13, 2021, 04:14:39 EDT
This right here, 100%. I'm not so quick to defend his use of the "F word" because it's highly offensive to gay people...though in reality it's also a playground slur, just one that's even cruder than p*$$y (though that's plenty crude enough). But the idea that using the "P word" to disparage someone is misogynistic is so incredibly stupid. It's sophomoric, but it's not misogynistic.

I also don't think using racially-motivated stereotypes to insult someone — while highly offensive and insensitive and unbecoming for anyone who is even attempting to be professional — is racist. I think we've forgotten what the definition of the word "racist" is.
His biggest mistake was putting it in writing. That is stupid. But how many minorities haven't used racial and sexist language. Not many.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 13, 2021, 10:09:53 EDT
I don't know the first thing about What Gruden or Urban is going through. What I have a problem with is prosecuting the unprosecutable. There is such a thing as due process and within due process, there is what is known as the statute of limitations. I know it's folks like you that strain at the gnat and swallow the camel such as when the dems tried to impeach Trump while he was out of office! YES! when your ilk operates in this manner... I have a problem with it.

There isn't a person in the world, in a 10 year, $100 million dollar position of leadership, that wouldn't be fired/forced to resign with this stuff being put in writing. No matter when it happened. Period. Maybe the world has changed. Good! And further, there are no criminal allegations. Employment at will, right?


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 13, 2021, 10:11:43 EDT
Shame for what? I can promise you if there came a time for me to change my perspective or opinion it would not be to your way of thinking.

And I can promise you similarly   :rolleyes:


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 13, 2021, 10:17:12 EDT
Having said the above, clearly the league leaned on the Raiders. If I called the Chairman of the Board, in writing, a f****t & p***y, of any organization, I'd be fired. And so would you.  :violin:


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Tnphil on October 13, 2021, 10:46:11 EDT
who is being protected and why haven't all the other emails been released...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/12/football/nfl-jon-gruden-raiders-washington-connection-spt/index.html


"It is truly outrageous that after the NFL's 10-month-long investigation involving hundreds of witnesses and 650,000 documents related to the longtime culture of harassment and abuse at the Washington Football Team, the only person to be held accountable and lose their job is the coach of the Las Vegas Raiders," the attorneys, Lisa Banks and Debra Katz, said in a statement.

"If the NFL felt it appropriate to release these offensive emails from Jon Gruden ... it must also release the findings related to the actual target of that investigation. Our clients and the public at large deserve transparency and accountability. If not, the NFL and Roger Goodell must explain why they appear intent on protecting the Washington Football Team and owner Dan Snyder at all costs."


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 13, 2021, 10:56:04 EDT
who is being protected and why haven't all the other emails been released...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/12/football/nfl-jon-gruden-raiders-washington-connection-spt/index.html


"It is truly outrageous that after the NFL's 10-month-long investigation involving hundreds of witnesses and 650,000 documents related to the longtime culture of harassment and abuse at the Washington Football Team, the only person to be held accountable and lose their job is the coach of the Las Vegas Raiders," the attorneys, Lisa Banks and Debra Katz, said in a statement.

"If the NFL felt it appropriate to release these offensive emails from Jon Gruden ... it must also release the findings related to the actual target of that investigation. Our clients and the public at large deserve transparency and accountability. If not, the NFL and Roger Goodell must explain why they appear intent on protecting the Washington Football Team and owner Dan Snyder at all costs."

Burn it all down. I don't care. Might take longer for Snyder to get rolled.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Coupe De VOL on October 13, 2021, 11:08:35 EDT
Most folks don't know that Marty Feldman was coach of the Raiders in 1961...

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AnotherDevotedHydatidtapeworm-size_restricted.gif)


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: BanditVol on October 14, 2021, 12:27:59 EDT
Most folks don't know that Marty Feldman was coach of the Raiders in 1961...

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AnotherDevotedHydatidtapeworm-size_restricted.gif)

Okay is there a Young Frankestein reference buried in that post. Cause if so, it's over my head.   :biggrin:


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: tshadow on October 14, 2021, 12:29:43 EDT
Transparency is for government accountability. What's going on now is the difference between prosecution and persecution. Black lists have existed in the private sector for centuries... it's called employment references (or lack thereof). Making this stuff public is over the top piling on. And pandering to the mob.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: BanditVol on October 14, 2021, 12:32:09 EDT
who is being protected and why haven't all the other emails been released...

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/12/football/nfl-jon-gruden-raiders-washington-connection-spt/index.html


"It is truly outrageous that after the NFL's 10-month-long investigation involving hundreds of witnesses and 650,000 documents related to the longtime culture of harassment and abuse at the Washington Football Team, the only person to be held accountable and lose their job is the coach of the Las Vegas Raiders," the attorneys, Lisa Banks and Debra Katz, said in a statement.

"If the NFL felt it appropriate to release these offensive emails from Jon Gruden ... it must also release the findings related to the actual target of that investigation. Our clients and the public at large deserve transparency and accountability. If not, the NFL and Roger Goodell must explain why they appear intent on protecting the Washington Football Team and owner Dan Snyder at all costs."

Great points. I seriously wonder if Goodell just wanted Gruden out, and also can believe what some are saying, is that Gruden is to distract from Snyder, because owners are the sacred cows and coaches are just employees.

650,000 documents and they find two emails.

Now, after going into all of Gruden's emails they apparently found more, but haven't really publicized that as much.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: tshadow on October 14, 2021, 12:35:45 EDT
And I can promise you similarly   :rolleyes:
Anyone can see who is careful in their formulation of opinion and who pops-off in their ignorance.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: BanditVol on October 14, 2021, 12:53:04 EDT
Having said the above, clearly the league leaned on the Raiders. If I called the Chairman of the Board, in writing, a f****t & p***y, of any organization, I'd be fired. And so would you.  :violin:

He called him that at a time he wasn't employed by them.

You may or may not be right, but Goodell is not a CEO, not at all. He works for the owners, and is voted in or out by them.  You may think that's simliar to a board, but it's not.  Goodell only has as much power as the owners give him.

Having said that, I really dislike Goodell so I think it's hilarious.   :naughty:

The other thing is it makes Goodell seem very thin skinned.  Which he likely is.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 14, 2021, 01:05:47 EDT
He called him that at a time he wasn't employed by them.

You may or may not be right, but Goodell is not a CEO, not at all. He works for the owners, and is voted in or out by them.  You may think that's simliar to a board, but it's not.  Goodell only has as much power as the owners give him.

Having said that, I really dislike Goodell so I think it's hilarious.   :naughty:

The other thing is it makes Goodell seem very thin skinned.  Which he likely is.

Seriously, I don't care. Burn it all down. BUT, Goodell is approximate to the COB. Dingbat! ✌🏽


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 14, 2021, 01:09:07 EDT
He called him that at a time he wasn't employed by them.

You may or may not be right, but Goodell is not a CEO, not at all. He works for the owners, and is voted in or out by them.  You may think that's simliar to a board, but it's not.  Goodell only has as much power as the owners give him.

Having said that, I really dislike Goodell so I think it's hilarious.   :naughty:

The other thing is it makes Goodell seem very thin skinned.  Which he likely is.

Why do you dislike Goodell as opposed to any other drizzle in charge?


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: BanditVol on October 14, 2021, 04:26:12 EDT
Why do you dislike Goodell as opposed to any other drizzle in charge?

Some of the stupid shizzle he's done in the past.  How he handled the Baltimore Ravens guy dragging his lady across the elevator lobby.  Then how he has repeatedly caved to the woke crowd.  Just a coward IMO.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Tnphil on October 14, 2021, 04:16:58 EDT
https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/13/jon-gruden-got-canceled-for-his-private-thoughts-and-you-could-be-next/

"Jon Gruden’s quick forced resignation as coach of the Las Vegas Raiders on Monday is a new level of cancel culture mission creep, and you should care about it, because it’s probably going to happen to you.

Now, as I’ve said before and truly believe, cancel culture is an overused term that is often too vague in its deployment. Properly defined, cancel culture requires someone to be truly “canceled” — meaning that they lose their livelihood and their ability to work in their sphere. That’s probably not true of Gruden, because I believe he’ll eventually be a coach or an NFL commentator again. And that’s one reason why I personally think we should just use cancel culture to talk about situations where normal, non-famous people are targeted and taken down."


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Tnphil on October 14, 2021, 04:21:33 EDT

"How does the NFL run a 10-month investigation into the Washington Football Team that concludes “the culture of the club was very toxic” ... yet, essentially, the only individual who has faced any public backlash or consequence is Jon Gruden, who never even worked there?"

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-nfl-denies-leaks-amid-the-jon-gruden-scandal-but-it-said-the-same-thing-about-deflategate-222359279.html


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: volsboy on October 14, 2021, 05:44:15 EDT
Yet Urban Meyer is unscathed after putting his hand in the crack of a woman that wasn't his wife on video. Sounds fair. NOT!


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: Coupe De VOL on October 14, 2021, 09:16:09 EDT
Okay is there a Young Frankestein reference buried in that post. Cause if so, it's over my head.   :biggrin:

but it is true....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Las_Vegas_Raiders_head_coaches (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Las_Vegas_Raiders_head_coaches)

 :biggrin:


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: SmokeyJoe on October 15, 2021, 03:32:59 EDT
Yet Urban Meyer is unscathed after putting his hand in the crack of a woman that wasn't his wife on video. Sounds fair. NOT!

Agree. I wouldn't say he is unscathed. May well be fired at the end of the year. And should be.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: BanditVol on October 15, 2021, 05:05:19 EDT
Yet Urban Meyer is unscathed after putting his hand in the crack of a woman that wasn't his wife on video. Sounds fair. NOT!

Eh.  I do find that pretty reprehensible. But is the woke crowd going to care?  Most of them likely think adultery is fine, that open marriages are the sign of an advanced society and that traditional marriage is for old fogeys.

I don't see the woke crowd going after him. Its more of an image issue for the owner, who might be able to use it as an excuse to let Urban go at a deep discount in the payout if he wants to.


Title: Re: per reports.....Las Vegas firing Gruden
Post by: BanditVol on October 15, 2021, 05:06:35 EDT
but it is true....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Las_Vegas_Raiders_head_coaches (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Las_Vegas_Raiders_head_coaches)

 :biggrin:

Lol.  I did not know that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty_Feldman_(American_football)

His 2-15 record was a horror show for sure!

He can be the answer to the trivia question "was there a worse coach of the Raiders than Lane Kiffin (5-15)?"