Most disappointing loss since_______?

[JeffCountyVolFan]

I'd have to say last year blowing a 27-14 lead against UF.

This team was, again, not ready to play. The difference tonight, at least for me, as that I didn't see the "drive" that I've seen in earlier games. Poor decisions and penalties were abundant. He'll, we had five penalties I think in the first 5 minutes.

Maybe, after the first 5 games they thought that they could play this USC team the same way - one half of football would be enough. If that's the case, they learned a tough lesson the hard way.

So disappointing!

[Creek Walker]

For me, it isn't too disappointing because I halfway expected it. However, I'd rank it as the most disgusting loss since Kentucky in 2012.

To me, the greater disappointment is what I'm now starting to view as an undeniable truth that I'd tried to deny for too long. I had great hope for Butch Jones, but that hope is quickly fading. I stopped to take a good, hard look at this Tennessee team after the Alabama game and realized that it just isn't that good...wasn't that good against Georgia (which we now know to be true), wasn't that good against Ohio or Appalachian State, and wasn't even really that good against Florida or Virginia Tech, although there were times in both of those games where the team was truly clicking on all cylinders.

I'm sick of hearing about the injuries as excuses. I'm beginning to realize that this team managed to hide its poor coaching acumen with superior talent (and perhaps some fortuitous bounces) early in the season. Now the injuries have eroded that advantage, and the facade has been busted. We've played 32 quarters of football, and this team has played up to its potential for perhaps five of them. That is a serious, serious concern. At this point I have no confidence in this staff.

[BanditVol]

 I had great hope for Butch Jones, but that hope is quickly fading.

Horse manure.  You have been taking shots at him for 3.5 years now.

Get this...I am not a Butch Jones "sunshine pumper".  I do think he is a huge upgrade over Dooley and yes Kiffin, and is about as good as Fulmer after 2001.  But if we drop another game or two, he might not survive this season. 

As it is, there will be a lot more pressure on him going into next season even if we win out, and if next year goes badly, he is likely gone.

I do think he has done a good job considering where he had to start from.

but enough about Jones...my point is you.  Don't give me this 'had great hope".  I've read your posts, and you have been negative about him from Day 1.

[Creek Walker]

I've read your posts, and you have been negative about him from Day 1.

Stop being a WATB because someone disagrees with you. I've defended Butch Jones many times on this forum. However, I'm also a realist.

[HerbTarlekVol]

............... Butch Jones arrived. 

MAC level offensive scheme with a MAC level coaching staff.   

And the one thing he did well - recruit - is beginning to fall back to average.  Not having all of the "legacy" guys to go to is beginning to show, along with the fact that he and his coaches now have a track record on the field for recruits to see. 

But he talks a great cliche game, however. 

[Coupe De VOL]

Butch has improved this team, and I am thankful for that.  IMO, he can be a great HC at Tenn.  However, he just does not have the staff that can get us over the 8-4/9-3 eternal bubble.  Despite the injuries, we have grossly under performed.  And yes, the staff is entirely on him.  He will have to either upgrade his coaching help or leave in a few years.  I think it is as simple as that.  Dobbs has regressed this year.  That is totally unacceptable.  ANd that is just one example.

[BanditVol]

Stop being a WATB because someone disagrees with you. I've defended Butch Jones many times on this forum. However, I'm also a realist.

on that first part...look in the mirror.  OMFG!   

You have at times defended him, but from the beginning you have complained about "the MAC".  You have also, again from the beginning, complained about "his staff", repeatedly.  And you have also complained repeatedly about his "MAC offense" (even though Malzahn runs it successfully at Auburn, Freeze has had great success with it, and Sumlin's offenses are also great...so it's an "SEC offense", right?  And...oh yeah.  Tim Tebow won a Heisman running it, and prior to Malzahn Cam Newton also won a Hesiman running it).

But again, don't let facts get in  your way of your feelings.   

[Creek Walker]

on that first part...look in the mirror.  OMFG!   

Dude, I'm discussing football. You're trying to lob out insults every time you disagree. If you want to act foolish, don't get upset when someone calls you on it. That's pretty simple message board reality.

And, no, Butch Jones' offensive scheme is not Gus Malzahn's offensive scheme, nor is it Freeze's or Sumlin's. All spread offenses are not equal. If you want to lay claim to being a masterful analyst who depends on logic and not feelings, that is a distinction you have to be able to make.

[BanditVol]

Dude, I'm discussing football. You're trying to lob out insults every time you disagree. If you want to act foolish, don't get upset when someone calls you on it. That's pretty simple message board reality.

And, no, Butch Jones' offensive scheme is not Gus Malzahn's offensive scheme, nor is it Freeze's or Sumlin's. All spread offenses are not equal. If you want to lay claim to being a masterful analyst who depends on logic and not feelings, that is a distinction you have to be able to make.

Maybe Butch doesn't run the exact flavor of offenses of other coaches, and I won't even claim to be an expert on that.  But...the critics of Butch's scheme inevitably don't want any type of spread at all, they want to go back to a pro style offense. Admit it, this is what you mean, right?  Is there any flavor of spread you want, or are they all "Mac offenses".    Urban Meyers offense very famously was.

As for the other part of your post, where did I insult you.  On the contrary, you called me a "WATB", which technically is a violation of board rules, but don't worry, I won't report you.   

All I did was throw it back at you.  Name anywhere above I insult you. I'm simply pointing out that your opinions don't apper to be based on facts or logic, but what you "feel" to be true. 

But that's okay....there's a saying...."you can't fix [censored by board rules] 'non-factual, opinion-based statements'".   

[HerbTarlekVol]

But...the critics of Butch's scheme inevitably don't want any type of spread at all, they want to go back to a pro style offense. Admit it, this is what you mean, right?  Is there any flavor of spread you want, or are they all "Mac offenses".    Urban Meyers offense very famously was.

Bullshizzle, Bandid.  Corch Myers has been able to adapt his offensive scheme to the talent he has had at UF and tOSU and to the better defensive talent he has seen at the Power 5 level.  It's not the same thing he ran as a MAC coach.

Butch and his coaches are still doing the same things they did at Western Michigan.  He has said so himself. 

If you want to drink the Koolaid and believe Butch when he tells us that what we are seeing isn't really what we are seeing, then have at it.  But don't expect everybody to follow suit and stop with the you know all and we don't act already.  It's gotten really old.

The proof in the pudding in the SEC is Ws and Ls, and right now we are one game over .500, one hail Mary away from being .500, and one hail Mary and an Appy State FG attempt that had a 95% probablity of being made in D1 football from being a .375 team right now.  That's the reality. 

But we'll hammer Tennessee Tech this week and you'll tell us that all is fixed.   

[BanditVol]

Butch and his coaches are still doing the same things they did at Western Michigan.  He has said so himself. 

If you want to drink the Koolaid and believe Butch when he tells us that what we are seeing isn't really what we are seeing, then have at it.  But don't expect everybody to follow suit and stop with the you know all and we don't act already.  It's gotten really old.

The proof in the pudding in the SEC is Ws and Ls, and right now we are one game over .500, one hail Mary away from being .500, and one hail Mary and an Appy State FG attempt that had a 95% probablity of being made in D1 football from being a .375 team right now.  That's the reality. 

Two points.  One...if you are going to claim that Butch is saying that about...um...I believe you mean Central Michigan  (hint:  if you are going to argue points, it helps to get the name of the team right  ...don't thank me, I am glad to help)....then please back it up with a quote or link.  Please link an article where he makes that statement this year, because that's what's relevant.  I haven't seen any statement to that effect recently. I have seen a generic statement he made in 2012 when he accepted the job, to the effect that his system had worked everywhere.  That hardly seems relevant now.  So....

Second point...wins are wins.  THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS  A MORAL LOSS.  In 1998, we almost lost to Syracuse, Florida, and Arkansas, facts often thrown in our face by opposing fans.  But...we didn't.

If there is no such thing as a moral win, then there is also no such thing as a moral loss.  Just win baby!

And you know, if you want to play that game, then we were literally four plays away from an undefeated season last year.  Right?  Hey can I claim we were almost 12-0 last year?  Because we were!  But I won't, because an L is an L.  Yes...close calls this year...hey but we almost beat Tamu and USC!  So do the close wins and close losses actually cancel out?  Help me out here!

And dude...we are 5-3...that is TWO games over 0.500. 

Again...as the attorneys say, "credibility of the witness", etc.