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Author Topic: SEC Expansion with Sooners and Horns  (Read 450 times)
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murfvol
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« on: July 21, 2021, 11:45:48 EDT »

On the surface it makes no sense, but with an expanded playoff it means more money. Trade a win over Troy St. for a loss to Texas? No biggie. The Horns created a sellout and higher ratings.

The sellout increased school revenue and higher ratings increased conference TV money. Dropping a couple of games now is not a detriment to a national title.

I'm not for it (nothing against either school), but the math seems to really, really work.
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JeffCountyVolFan
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2021, 11:52:42 EDT »

It’s always going to be about power and money in the end.
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droner
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2021, 12:36:52 EDT »

I'm against it. In fact, I think that Arkansas and Missouri should go back to the Big 12, a/k/a The Southwest Conference.

We could add Louisville and Georgia Tech. Or FSU.  NOT the tiglets.
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2021, 12:44:06 EDT »

If we expand again, I’d rather go to the East. We need a presence in NC and VA. Those are two big states within our footprint that would be very lucrative for TV purposes. If we could get one of UNC/NCSU/Duke and one of VPI/UVa, I’d take that and be happy.

I don’t want Texas. They don’t play well with others, and we already have a presence in the state anyway. OU is a great brand, but are in a relatively small state. It’s all about making more money, and that means adding SECN subscribers.

If we’re going to raid another conference, we should be looking at the ACC, not the Big 12.
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2021, 12:47:34 EDT »

A&M and Missouri will vote no.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/report-2-sec-schools-firmly-against-oklahoma-texas/ar-AAMpxRv?li=BBnb7Kz
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murfvol
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2021, 03:19:49 EDT »

Texas seems to be super toxic. I used to be for a Virginia addition, but OU has a bigger brand than anyone in VA. NC State could have had Mizzou's spot, but they have never had their stuff together. North Carolina is a logical spot to grow, but it's tough.

As an aside, the Big 12 should grab UCF and Charlotte if they plan for the future. That won't happen, but those would be the smart long-term plays.
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PirateVOL
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2021, 03:24:10 EDT »

For me, the short horns are a big fat NO!

OK, yeah, I'd take them, if an ACC team was also selected, UNC would be a good pick - Clemson is a big NO, as would be Miami. 

BTW, you know if the SEC did go with 2 more teams that would drive a 9 game SEC schedule
One caveat I would add, is if this were to happen then the constant opposite division foe would have to go away, so that we would rotate through the West Div teams more often
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2021, 04:31:13 EDT »

Back when Mizzou and The Aggies were added, Texas and Oklahoma had the opportunity to be part of the expansion, but for competitive reasons they chose to turn tail and run like cowards. 

I say fizzle 'em.  They need the SEC a whole lot more than the SEC needs them.  Let them go to the PAChowevermanyschoolsthereareinitnow where their road games can start at 10:30 eastern on some obscure Fox affiliated station that 95% of Americas don't get with their TV package. 

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Black Diamond Vol
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2021, 05:36:36 EDT »

Back when Mizzou and The Aggies were added, Texas and Oklahoma had the opportunity to be part of the expansion, but for competitive reasons they chose to turn tail and run like cowards. 

I say fizzle 'em.  They need the SEC a whole lot more than the SEC needs them.  Let them go to the PAChowevermanyschoolsthereareinitnow where their road games can start at 10:30 eastern on some obscure Fox affiliated station that 95% of Americas don't get with their TV package. 



Agree. I want neither. If you hold me at gunpoint, I’d take OU. But TX is a hard no. They ruin everything they touch. Let them in, and it’s just a matter of time before they’re demanding a bigger slice of the revenue, demanding they keep their own TV network, demanding their opponents get penalized for doing the “horns down” thing, etc.

Besides, didn’t they use the “poor SEC academics” excuse for not joining a decade ago? What’s changed since then? fizzle them.
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HerbTarlekVol
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2021, 06:02:39 EDT »

Agree. I want neither. If you hold me at gunpoint, I’d take OU. But TX is a hard no. They ruin everything they touch. Let them in, and it’s just a matter of time before they’re demanding a bigger slice of the revenue, demanding they keep their own TV network, demanding their opponents get penalized for doing the “horns down” thing, etc.

Besides, didn’t they use the “poor SEC academics” excuse for not joining a decade ago? What’s changed since then? fizzle them.

There is no way the SEC takes Texas with their Longhorn Network deal in place.  It's an ESPN platform, which can be folded in to the SECN package, along with the revenue it creates to split equally, just like the SECN revenue.  The SEC Powers that be aren't stupid, and neither are the SEC presidents.  They don't take Texas unless the LHN is merged with SECN. 
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2021, 08:38:02 EDT »

There is no way the SEC takes Texas with their Longhorn Network deal in place.  It's an ESPN platform, which can be folded in to the SECN package, along with the revenue it creates to split equally, just like the SECN revenue.  The SEC Powers that be aren't stupid, and neither are the SEC presidents.  They don't take Texas unless the LHN is merged with SECN. 

Along those lines, the ESPN article states "One potential obstacle for such a move, at least anytime soon, is that Oklahoma and Texas signed a Big 12 grant-of-rights agreement, in which they granted their first- and second-tier media rights for football and men's basketball to the conference through June 30, 2025. That means the Big 12 would still own those schools' media rights for those sports -- even if they are no longer members -- until the agreement expires.

The Big 12's TV contracts with ESPN and Fox also expire in 2025. The Longhorn Network's deal with ESPN goes through 2031.
"

I know that money can solve anything but I don't see the Big 12 releasing them from that agreement. And I don't see the SEC agreeing to take them with that agreement still in place.

But money can conquer mountains. Or something like that. 
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HerbTarlekVol
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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2021, 08:54:31 EDT »

Along those lines, the ESPN article states "One potential obstacle for such a move, at least anytime soon, is that Oklahoma and Texas signed a Big 12 grant-of-rights agreement, in which they granted their first- and second-tier media rights for football and men's basketball to the conference through June 30, 2025. That means the Big 12 would still own those schools' media rights for those sports -- even if they are no longer members -- until the agreement expires.

The Big 12's TV contracts with ESPN and Fox also expire in 2025. The Longhorn Network's deal with ESPN goes through 2031.
"

I know that money can solve anything but I don't see the Big 12 releasing them from that agreement. And I don't see the SEC agreeing to take them with that agreement still in place.

But money can conquer mountains. Or something like that. 

I don't see Texas and Oklahoma being "full fledged" members of the SEC until then, anyway. 

But if the SEC decides they want them before that they certainly have the power to "negotiate" a buyout that the Big12 can't refuse. 

And this is going to happen.  It wouldn't have been floated otherwise.  Mizzou and The Aggies are likely the only ones to oppose it, and even then, I don't know if Mizzou will actually vote against it when push comes to shove.  They need the expanded SEC share money as badly as everybody else does.  The Aggies?  Not really.  They have more money than just about anybody in the country. 

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Cobbvol
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2021, 01:27:45 EDT »

I have always heard that a school has veto power if they choose of any additions to the conference of a school in their state. Like SC-Clemson, KY-Louisville, GA-GT, etc. Will be interesting to see if that is indeed true and available to A&M if that is the case.
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droner
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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2021, 02:00:06 EDT »

I have always heard that a school has veto power if they choose of any additions to the conference of a school in their state. Like SC-Clemson, KY-Louisville, GA-GT, etc. Will be interesting to see if that is indeed true and available to A&M if that is the case.

The A&M AD says that there is a gentleman's agreement to not let in a team from a state as a present SEC member.

As an attorney I will state the obvious: A gentleman's agreement ain't worth squat. I get paid for that sort of legalese.
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Creek Walker
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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2021, 02:32:39 EDT »

The A&M AD says that there is a gentleman's agreement to not let in a team from a state as a present SEC member.

As an attorney I will state the obvious: A gentleman's agreement ain't worth squat. I get paid for that sort of legalese.

Why would you speak up and remind people you're an attorney?

That would be kinda like me speaking up to remind people I'm a journalist.

Oh, wait... 
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PirateVOL
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« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2021, 02:37:29 EDT »

Why would you speak up and remind people you're an attorney?

That would be kinda like me speaking up to remind people I'm a journalist.

Oh, wait... 
First droner's Liver and the rest of droner are figments of his imagination
However, for yourself, at least you spelled journalist correctly ...
 
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Creek Walker
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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2021, 02:44:13 EDT »


However, for yourself, at least you spelled journalist correctly ...
 


Do you mean s-n-a-k-e-i-n-t-h-e-g-r-a-s-s?
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murfvol
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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2021, 04:14:06 EDT »

I think the Mississippi schools should oppose Texas. They're the obvious targets when Texas starts to Texas and become opposed to sharing.
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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2021, 05:45:51 EDT »

The theory sounds plausible. Oklahoma wants out of the Big 12 because they are sick of 11:00 AM games. The Big 12 wouldn't help them and the TV network wouldn't budge.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/the-real-reason-oklahoma-wants-out-of-the-big-12/ar-AAMrDma?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Wouldn't it be funny/ironic if the Big 12 inadvertently ran Oklahoma out of the conference?
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PirateVOL
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« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2021, 02:03:41 EDT »

The theory sounds plausible. Oklahoma wants out of the Big 12 because they are sick of 11:00 AM games. The Big 12 wouldn't help them and the TV network wouldn't budge.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/the-real-reason-oklahoma-wants-out-of-the-big-12/ar-AAMrDma?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Wouldn't it be funny/ironic if the Big 12 inadvertently ran Oklahoma out of the conference?
In the SEC OU would still get at least 2 JP 11:00 KO games
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All men dream: but not equally. Those who
Dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds
Wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the
Dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they
May act their dream with open eyes, to make it
Possible. This I did.
—T. E. Lawrence,
The Seven Pillars of Wisdom
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." - David Hackworth

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet"
General James "Mad Dog" Mattis
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« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2021, 02:44:34 EDT »

In the SEC OU would still get at least 2 JP 11:00 KO games

That would also be funny. 
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« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2021, 03:44:48 EDT »

Sources saying on Twitter that talks have been happening between TX, OU, and the SEC for the past 6 months, and that A&M was completely left out of the loop. Sounds like we did them dirty.
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murfvol
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« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2021, 04:26:54 EDT »

Let's assume A&M didn't know. That could be for a couple of reasons.

1) Perhaps no other schools knew either as the league office wanted to have their ducks in a row prior to presenting.

2) General underhandedness

I lean toward everyone knowing, and Kirk Bohl's story being misleading at best. You don't let the Horns and Sooners go down the path without having votes in place.
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murfvol
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« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2021, 04:28:40 EDT »

I also like to note the following.

Did you want to see a band with Richie Blackmore, Bruce Dickinson, Yngwie Malmsteen, and Ginger Baker? Sure.

Did you want to be in a band with them? No.
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« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2021, 05:14:04 EDT »

This is way further along than was being put out yesterday.  It's pretty much done, and it wouldn't be to this point unless Sankey knew the votes are there to make it happen. 

The Superconference concept is here.  The SEC isn't going to stop with 18, look for a couple more schools to be added, too. 

And the ACC and Bigcan'tcountconference will follow suit. 

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