midtnvol
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« on: December 15, 2012, 12:32:26 EST » |
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Being big on second amendment rights I still know something has to be done. I don't like the huge tax on ammo as an answer nor do I want abolition of all handguns as I don't want my fingers broken as they pry it from my cold dead hand. The President was right that this issue must be addressed, and I don't have an answer. How can our nation keep idiots like the one in Connecticut for getting their hands on guns. Opinions?
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Stogie Vol
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 12:32:58 EST » |
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It's the gun free zones that are being selected by these cowardly mass murderers. I believe that if school personnel had weapons training and training on how to defend their students, schools would not be a hotbed for these shooting sprees. I'm talking about all levels from preschool up through college. If there were responsible adults carrying weapons in the Newtown school, I firmly believe there would have been fewer casualties.
I don't mind more stringent background checks for purchasing weapons, but keeping guns out of law-abiding citizens' hands is not the solution.
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RIPLEYVOL
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 09:31:17 EST » |
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I'm with you Stogie!
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midtnvol
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 03:01:07 EST » |
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I'm with you Stogie!
I agree also with an astrick. Be almighty careful which administrators and personnel that you arm. I have worked with a lot of very good and dedicated teachers but I would be slow to trust some of them with a firearm.
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Creek Walker
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 02:26:15 EST » |
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To stop what happened in Connecticut from happening again we should stop asking how we prevent guys like that from getting their hands on guns and start focusing on how what made him tick the way he ticked. Once a person is able to rationalize killing two classrooms full of six-year-olds, the means they use to go about it is a moot point.
Our society's mindset has long been to blame the means rather than the cause. Until we get serious about the cause, things aren't going to change. It will be harder for law-abiding gun owners to purchase guns, they won't be able to purchase some of the guns they like and use, and it will cost them more to do so, with more red tape. And our kids will keep dying at the hands of madmen.
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Stogie Vol
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 02:34:10 EST » |
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To stop what happened in Connecticut from happening again we should stop asking how we prevent guys like that from getting their hands on guns and start focusing on how what made him tick the way he ticked. Once a person is able to rationalize killing two classrooms full of six-year-olds, the means they use to go about it is a moot point.
Our society's mindset has long been to blame the means rather than the cause. Until we get serious about the cause, things aren't going to change. It will be harder for law-abiding gun owners to purchase guns, they won't be able to purchase some of the guns they like and use, and it will cost them more to do so, with more red tape. And our kids will keep dying at the hands of madmen.
Agree
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VOLMAN
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2012, 10:18:17 EST » |
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To stop what happened in Connecticut from happening again we should stop asking how we prevent guys like that from getting their hands on guns and start focusing on how what made him tick the way he ticked. Once a person is able to rationalize killing two classrooms full of six-year-olds, the means they use to go about it is a moot point.
Our society's mindset has long been to blame the means rather than the cause. Until we get serious about the cause, things aren't going to change. It will be harder for law-abiding gun owners to purchase guns, they won't be able to purchase some of the guns they like and use, and it will cost them more to do so, with more red tape. And our kids will keep dying at the hands of madmen.
on the method, methods can and will be adapted, focus on how we as a society have reached this point of having so little value for life. I also see the media coverage as encouraging reluctant nutjobs to "go ahead and join in". When these depraved, sick, evil individuals have their name and face repeatedly broadcast 24/7 for days on end, those that are mentally unstable see the "fame" they too can attain and perhaps even more fame if they can outdo the last guy. Guns are the easy, superficial response that will produce no impact (we had the bans for years and there was no impact on gun violence....we know this but it's the easy feel good response).
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RIPLEYVOL
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 05:26:49 EST » |
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What's crazy is damn near that many people die each day in chicago from gun related crimes. It's tragic that is happened no questions asked..but the media force feeds the masses and pulls at the hearts of so many people. Then comes in .....we must ban all guns...guns are evil. People are evil not the firearms! More people die daily from heart disease than all the gun crimes combined....what's next? tax Ronald...don't let him make anymore burgers? Wendy doesn't get to stay in the game? Same goes with tobacco related deaths! I blame the media for alot of the mass hysteria on the gun issue!
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UT Mom
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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2012, 08:46:14 EST » |
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I won't say I'm for are against this, but don't come into my home without knocking first.
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byronga
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2013, 01:32:43 EST » |
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It's the gun free zones that are being selected by these cowardly mass murderers. I believe that if school personnel had weapons training and training on how to defend their students, schools would not be a hotbed for these shooting sprees. I'm talking about all levels from preschool up through college. If there were responsible adults carrying weapons in the Newtown school, I firmly believe there would have been fewer casualties.
I don't mind more stringent background checks for purchasing weapons, but keeping guns out of law-abiding citizens' hands is not the solution.
Do you suggest that they should be armed with the weapons in the following videos which are the same as that used in Newtown? Look at the videos carefully and realize that they are presently legal though present you with automatic fire. Personly, these rifles must be controlled and from the second video you will notice that many more legal weapons can be made automatics during fire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD213VW6WjY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6tORrODJE
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Stogie Vol
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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2013, 05:56:09 EST » |
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Do you suggest that they should be armed with the weapons in the following videos which are the same as that used in Newtown? Look at the videos carefully and realize that they are presently legal though present you with automatic fire. Personly, these rifles must be controlled and from the second video you will notice that many more legal weapons can be made automatics during fire. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD213VW6WjY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6tORrODJE No.
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murfvol
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2013, 03:38:08 EST » |
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If you are so inclined Ruger makes it easy to contact all your elected officials in one fell swoop. http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html
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"The more the words, the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?" - Ecclesiastes 6:11
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Stogie Vol
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2013, 04:11:45 EST » |
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midtnvol
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2013, 06:10:46 EST » |
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Thoughts on this... http://news.msn.com/us/photos-of-man-with-rifle-in-utah-store-go-viral ... I'll give mine. This guy needs to have his arse kicked. Who gives him the right to endanger the public like this. If another gun toter sees him and reacts (or overreacts ) who and how many get hurt? This puts an exclamation point on the need for some kind of change. He says he was trying to make a statement. If he doesn't have the vocabulary to express his sentiments, then he needs to go back for the education that goes with his HS diploma.
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101stDad
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« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2013, 10:53:25 EST » |
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Who gives him the right to endanger the public like this.
So, who is he endangering? He is abiding by the law. And secondly, who gives him the right? The laws of the state of Utah give him that right.
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midtnvol
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2013, 12:22:44 EST » |
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So, who is he endangering? He is abiding by the law. And secondly, who gives him the right? The laws of the state of Utah give him that right.
First thought as to who is endandered would be innocent bystanders. You are correct in that the state of Utah gives him that right, thus my opinion that some kind of change is necessary. Keep in mind that I am big on second amendment rights but carrying an assault rifle around just to be seen is asking for trouble and nuts like this are (some of) the reasons for a need to change some things. I know a guy that I ran into while I was exiting Wal-Mart and he was packing heat on his hip. He was not a lawman but a guy we (TWRA) dealt with from time to time. He had a permit and knowing him as I do the only reason for him to be carrying was for show. The last few days there have been at least 5 people injured at gun shows (all by accident) across the nation. Some may have the right to tote but that doesn't mean they have the mental capacity to do so prudently.
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BanditVol
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2013, 05:23:39 EST » |
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I don't think the guy targeted the school because it was gun free. Supposedly he had some issues with his mother working there. I would not be opposed to armed guards at schools. Not at all. I think some inner city schools do have part time police on campus, though ICBW.
I also don't favor gun control, but does the second amendment really cover fully automatic assault rifles, and what are those for anyway? What about grenades and rocket launchers? Some common sense limits on caliber and automatic-fire capability, I don't see what the big deal is.
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"The speed of our movements is amazing, even to me, and must be a constant source of surprise to the Germans.” G. Patton
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101stDad
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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2013, 03:50:08 EST » |
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I don't think the guy targeted the school because it was gun free. Supposedly he had some issues with his mother working there. I would not be opposed to armed guards at schools. Not at all. I think some inner city schools do have part time police on campus, though ICBW.
I also don't favor gun control, but does the second amendment really cover fully automatic assault rifles, and what are those for anyway? What about grenades and rocket launchers? Some common sense limits on caliber and automatic-fire capability, I don't see what the big deal is.
No, his mother did not work there - never did. That was false information the media put out there in their haste to get the scoop. It was proved wrong. Were I a gambling man, I would bet that he did target the school precisely because it is a gun free zone. What exactly, and be exact, is an assault rifle? Are you referring to semi automatic rifles? Fully automatic rifles are already illegal. Semi automatic rifles have to have the trigger pulled for each shot. And for the fans of "what are they thinking", the law that the state legislature of New York passed and that the Governor signed in to law failed to exempt law enforcement from possessing a magazine holding more than 7 rounds. That means that now the criminals, who won't follow the law, now have more firepower than does law enforcement. That's a result of the knee jerk reaction of the left. They are going off half cocked (pun intended) without thinking about the consequences of their actions.
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101stDad
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« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 03:51:17 EST » |
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First thought as to who is endandered would be innocent bystanders. You are correct in that the state of Utah gives him that right, thus my opinion that some kind of change is necessary. Keep in mind that I am big on second amendment rights but carrying an assault rifle around just to be seen is asking for trouble and nuts like this are (some of) the reasons for a need to change some things. I know a guy that I ran into while I was exiting Wal-Mart and he was packing heat on his hip. He was not a lawman but a guy we (TWRA) dealt with from time to time. He had a permit and knowing him as I do the only reason for him to be carrying was for show. The last few days there have been at least 5 people injured at gun shows (all by accident) across the nation. Some may have the right to tote but that doesn't mean they have the mental capacity to do so prudently.
OK, so exactly how is he endangering bystanders? He has a permit to carry a weapon from the state of Utah.
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midtnvol
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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2013, 05:31:22 EST » |
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OK, so exactly how is he endangering bystanders? He has a permit to carry a weapon from the state of Utah.
I have to go back a couple of my posts but I stated if he runs into another person packing heat and intentions are misunderstood then it's OK Corral all over again. People fly off the handle all the time and there's no way to identify them until it's too late. If everybody had a sign to hang around their neck distinguishing the sane for the wackos, or one that says "Don't pi$$ me off, I'm having a bad day." then let's all go armed. If this guys intention was to scare the hell out of somebody then he succeeded in the case of the lady that took the picture. It may not scare somebody that's on a level playing field then you have a problem. Heck, of the five people hurt this past weekend at gun shows four were bystanders and only one guy shot himself in the hand.
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« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 05:54:01 EST by midtnvol »
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101stDad
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« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2013, 06:12:02 EST » |
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I have to go back a couple of my posts but I stated if he runs into another person packing heat and intentions are misunderstood then it's OK Corral all over again. People fly off the handle all the time and there's no way to identify them until it's too late. If everybody had a sign to hang around their neck distinguishing the sane for the wackos, or one that says "Don't pi$$ me off, I'm having a bad day." then let's all go armed. If this guys intention was to scare the hell out of somebody then he succeeded in the case of the lady that took the picture. It may not scare somebody that's on a level playing field then you have a problem. Heck, of the five people hurt this past weekend at gun shows four were bystanders and only one guy shot himself in the hand.
OK, again - he is a law abiding citizen with a permit to carry a weapon. How is he endangering anybody? What you posted doesn't answer anything. You are assuming that individuals who legally own weapons and have permits to carry them aren't responsible enough to know when they should be used. Show me an example of where a person with a legal carry permit has committed a crime or done what you are claiming could happen.
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midtnvol
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« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2013, 03:34:12 EST » |
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Way too early to give examples since this carrying of AR-14's or other weapons openly is a revived concept of ancient times. I'm sure I could dig into archives of the 1870's to the early 1900's old west newspapers and find many accounts but I'm not that interested in the topic to do that. It's only my opinion just like most other posts here. Case isn't decided yet but George Zimmerman has (or had) a permit and is charged with a crime (second degree murder). Not giving this example as a conviction of Zimmerman, I'll let the jury decide that. More http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/concerns-about-concealed-carry/homicides-committed-by-concealed-handgun-permit-holders-in-florida That's just in Florida. I didn't search any other states. As far as assuming that permit carriers don't have enough sense to do so responsibly, I gave one about the guy I met outside Wal-Mart. Given it's only my opinion having known him for over twenty-five years but my opinion counts too. He will never commit a crime with a gun again (previous violations were hunting related) since he passed away a few weeks ago.
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« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 04:52:19 EST by midtnvol »
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midtnvol
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« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2013, 09:29:08 EST » |
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OK, again - he is a law abiding citizen with a permit to carry a weapon. How is he endangering anybody? What you posted doesn't answer anything. You are assuming that individuals who legally own weapons and have permits to carry them aren't responsible enough to know when they should be used.
Show me an example of where a person with a legal carry permit has committed a crime or done what you are claiming could happen.
Here's an example FOR allowing people to tote guns unrestricted. It's from FOX NEWS so it may be slanted just a bit. (I'm just trying to be fair and balanced ) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,149250,00.html
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Quasi EVol
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2013, 06:40:22 EST » |
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OK, again - he is a law abiding citizen with a permit to carry a weapon. How is he endangering anybody? What you posted doesn't answer anything. You are assuming that individuals who legally own weapons and have permits to carry them aren't responsible enough to know when they should be used.
Show me an example of where a person with a legal carry permit has committed a crime or done what you are claiming could happen.
Since you asked, I remember Harry Coleman was convicted of 2nd degree murder in Cordova while I was working in Memphis. It was over a freakin' parking space. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jul/16/coleman-guilty-Cordova-parking-lot-shooting/While looking for a non-Commercial Appeal source for this (because you'll get a pay-firewall notice after clicking four links there), I found 117 HCP holders who were convicted for killings committed between 2007-2012 listed at http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwtotalkilled.pdf: 001) unknown #01 (4 Michigan unnamed HCP holders convicted for 2010-2011 killings) 002) unknown #02 003) unknown #03 004) unknown #04 005) unknown #01 (3 Michigan unnamed HCP holders convicted for 2009-2010 killings) 006) unknown #02 007) unknown #03 008) unknown #01 (1 Michigan unnamed HCP holder convicted for 2007-2008 killing) 009) unknown #01 (1 Minnesota unnamed HCP holder convicted for 2008 killing) 010) unknown #01 (2 Texas unnamed HCP holders convicted for 2011 killings) 011) unknown #02 012) unknown #01 (6 Texas unnamed HCP holders convicted for 2010 killings) 013) unknown #02 014) unknown #03 015) unknown #04 016) unknown #05 017) unknown #06 018) unknown #01 (1 Texas unnamed HCP holder convicted for 2009 killing) 019) unknown #01 (3 Texas unnamed HCP holders convicted for 2008 killings) 020) unknown #02 021) unknown #03 022) Bart Johnson 023) Laquintta Turk 024) Kathy Lowe 025) Joshua Jones 026) William Phillips 027) James Boll 028) David Noriega 029) Justin Campos 030) Leonel Marquetti 031) James Menard 032) Paul Merhige 033) Lenin Florian 034) Humberto Delgado 035) Andrew Conley 036) William Garrido 037) Dam Lopez 038) Paul Kallenbach 039) Guillermo Zarabozo 040) Ardese Day 041) Charles Johnston 042) Chris Stone 043) Jeremy Hobbs 044) Lucas Holland 045) William Calderon 046) Larry Wilson 047) Brian McGuire 048) William Seidl 049) Charles Richter 050) John Tassinari 051) Hayes Bacall 052) Edward Bell 053) Tigh Croff 054) Jamar Pinkney 055) Harlan Drake 056) Kevin Hoover 057) Salam Zora 058) Troy Brake 059) Michelle Wilson 060) Johnnie Pulley 061) Alex Kopystenski 062) Frank Garcia 063) Eric Gilbert 064) Lionel Loya 065) William Littleton 066) Bobby Bordeaux 067) John Gallaher 068) Jamez Mellion 069) David Ramey 070) Mark Langlois 071) Shawn Kortz 072) Matthew Warmus 073) Shamon McDavis 074) Matthew Culbertson 075) Ashford Thompson 076) Geraldine Beasley 077) Terrance Hough 078) Gary Buoy 079) Jerome Ersland 080) Kenneth Gumm 081) Tyler Smith 082) Joel Jensen 083) Marqus Hill 084) Yvonne Hiller 085) Paul Hansen 086) Kirk Caldwell 087) Greg Baker 088) Jonathan Reyes 089) Shannon Mayo 090) Johan Pujols 091) Joel Atkin 092) Richard Poplawski 093) Fernando Gotay 094) Christina Korbe 095) Nicholas Gianquitti 096) Julian Battle 097) Randolph Sims 098) Michael Hood 099) Frank Graham 100) Thomas Pate 101) Harry Coleman 102) Demetria Nance 103) Raul Rodriguez 104) Ronnie Cook 105) Alan Godin 106) Mary Hanson 107) David Ragsdale 108) Eugene C. Wright 109) Peter Simpson 110) Reginald Royals 111) Willie Donaldson 112) Evan Gargiulo 113) Wesley Earnest 114) Amanda Knight 115) Keira S. Earhart 116) Richard Peters 117) Christopher Bowling ...and 60 pending convictions for killings during the same period: 01) unknown #01 (5 Michigan unnamed HCP holders charges are pending for 2010-2011 killings) 02) unknown #02 03) unknown #03 04) unknown #04 05) unknown #05 06) unknown #01 (3 Michigan unnamed HCP holders charges are pending for 2009-2010 killings) 07) unknown #02 08) unknown #03 09) unknown #01 (5 Michigan unnamed HCP holders charges are pending for 2007-2008 killings) 10) unknown #02 11) unknown #03 12) unknown #04 13) unknown #05 14) unknown #01 (1 unnamed state's unnamed HCP holder charges are pending for 2012 killing) 15) Tracey Grissom 16) Thomas Bodine 17) Solomon Davis 18) Vincent Williams 19) Richard Tauch 20) Daniel Baker 21) Allana Carey 22) Michael Dunn 23) Kenneth Roop 24) George Zimmerman 25) Wilmen Diaz 26) Hewart Bailey 27) Emanuel Rivera 28) Trevor Dooley 29) Narcisse Antoine 30) James Wonder 31) Gabriel Mobley 32) Adam Hill 33) Javaris Crittenton 34) David McCall 35) Jerry Bourque 36) Ed Myers 37) Akbar Rana 38) Michael Moreno 39) David Nesbitt 40) Darrell Laffoon 41) William Allabaugh 42) Kevin Cleeves 43) Andrew Gesslein 44) Robert Jones 45) Danny Kirtley 46) William Moreland 47) Matthew Miller 48) Gregory Booton 49) Norman Whitton 50) Troy Whiteside 51) Martino Johnson 52) Crystal Scott 53) Dennis Redding 54) William Franklin 55) Richard Calderon 56) Bradley Gregory 57) Ali Abid 58) Dinh Bowman 59) Eric Vita 60) Cornelius DeJong
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VOLMAN
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« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2013, 05:22:08 EST » |
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a 6 yr period (less than 20/yr) out weighs the over 2 million gun owners who prevented a crime against themselves just last year?
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