Gun control...

[midtnvol]

Being big on second amendment rights I still know something has to be done. I don't like the huge tax on ammo as an answer nor do I want abolition of all handguns as I don't want my fingers broken as they pry it from my cold dead hand. The President was right that this issue must be addressed, and I don't have an answer. How can our nation keep idiots like the one in Connecticut for getting their hands on guns. Opinions?

[Stogie Vol]

It's the gun free zones that are being selected by these cowardly mass murderers. I believe that if school personnel had weapons training and training on how to defend their students, schools would not be a hotbed for these shooting sprees. I'm talking about all levels from preschool up through college.  If there were responsible adults carrying weapons in the Newtown school, I firmly believe there would have been fewer casualties.

I don't mind more stringent background checks for purchasing weapons, but keeping guns out of law-abiding citizens' hands is not the solution.

[RIPLEYVOL]

I'm with you Stogie!

[midtnvol]

I'm with you Stogie!

I agree also with an astrick. Be almighty careful which administrators and personnel that you arm. I have worked with a lot of very good and dedicated teachers but I would be slow to trust some of them with a firearm.

[Creek Walker]

To stop what happened in Connecticut from happening again we should stop asking how we prevent guys like that from getting their hands on guns and start focusing on how what made him tick the way he ticked. Once a person is able to rationalize killing two classrooms full of six-year-olds, the means they use to go about it is a moot point.

Our society's mindset has long been to blame the means rather than the cause. Until we get serious about the cause, things aren't going to change. It will be harder for law-abiding gun owners to purchase guns, they won't be able to purchase some of the guns they like and use, and it will cost them more to do so, with more red tape. And our kids will keep dying at the hands of madmen.

[Stogie Vol]

To stop what happened in Connecticut from happening again we should stop asking how we prevent guys like that from getting their hands on guns and start focusing on how what made him tick the way he ticked. Once a person is able to rationalize killing two classrooms full of six-year-olds, the means they use to go about it is a moot point.

Our society's mindset has long been to blame the means rather than the cause. Until we get serious about the cause, things aren't going to change. It will be harder for law-abiding gun owners to purchase guns, they won't be able to purchase some of the guns they like and use, and it will cost them more to do so, with more red tape. And our kids will keep dying at the hands of madmen.

Agree

[VOLMAN]

To stop what happened in Connecticut from happening again we should stop asking how we prevent guys like that from getting their hands on guns and start focusing on how what made him tick the way he ticked. Once a person is able to rationalize killing two classrooms full of six-year-olds, the means they use to go about it is a moot point.

Our society's mindset has long been to blame the means rather than the cause. Until we get serious about the cause, things aren't going to change. It will be harder for law-abiding gun owners to purchase guns, they won't be able to purchase some of the guns they like and use, and it will cost them more to do so, with more red tape. And our kids will keep dying at the hands of madmen.

on the method, methods can and will be adapted, focus on how we as a society have reached this point of having so little value for life. I also see the media coverage as encouraging reluctant nutjobs to "go ahead and join in". When these depraved, sick, evil individuals have their name and face repeatedly broadcast 24/7 for days on end, those that are mentally unstable see the "fame" they too can attain and perhaps even more fame if they can outdo the last guy. Guns are the easy, superficial response that will produce no impact (we had the bans for years and there was no impact on gun violence....we know this but it's the easy feel good response).

[RIPLEYVOL]

What's crazy is damn near that many people die each day in chicago from gun related crimes.  It's tragic that is happened no questions asked..but the media force feeds the masses and pulls at the hearts of so many people.  Then comes in .....we must ban all guns...guns are evil. People are evil not the firearms!  More people die daily from heart disease than all the gun crimes combined....what's next?  tax Ronald...don't let him make anymore burgers?  Wendy doesn't get to stay in the game?  Same goes with tobacco related deaths!   I blame the media for alot of the mass hysteria on the gun issue!

[UT Mom]

I won't say I'm for are against this, but don't come into my home without knocking first.   

[byronga]

It's the gun free zones that are being selected by these cowardly mass murderers. I believe that if school personnel had weapons training and training on how to defend their students, schools would not be a hotbed for these shooting sprees. I'm talking about all levels from preschool up through college.  If there were responsible adults carrying weapons in the Newtown school, I firmly believe there would have been fewer casualties.

I don't mind more stringent background checks for purchasing weapons, but keeping guns out of law-abiding citizens' hands is not the solution.

Do you suggest that they should be armed with the weapons in the following videos which are the same as that used in Newtown?  Look at the videos carefully and realize that they are presently legal though present you with automatic fire.  Personly,  these rifles must be controlled and from the second video you will notice that many more legal weapons can be made automatics during fire. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD213VW6WjY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6tORrODJE

[Stogie Vol]

Do you suggest that they should be armed with the weapons in the following videos which are the same as that used in Newtown?  Look at the videos carefully and realize that they are presently legal though present you with automatic fire.  Personly,  these rifles must be controlled and from the second video you will notice that many more legal weapons can be made automatics during fire. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD213VW6WjY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6tORrODJE

No.

[murfvol]

If you are so inclined Ruger makes it easy to contact all your elected officials in one fell swoop.

http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html

[Stogie Vol]

If you are so inclined Ruger makes it easy to contact all your elected officials in one fell swoop.

http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html

Thanks.

[midtnvol]

Thoughts on this... http://news.msn.com/us/photos-of-man-with-rifle-in-utah-store-go-viral ...
I'll give mine. This guy needs to have his arse kicked. Who gives him the right to endanger the public like this. If another gun toter sees him and reacts (or overreacts ) who and how many get hurt? This puts an exclamation point on the need for some kind of change. He says he was trying to make a statement. If he doesn't have the vocabulary to express his sentiments, then he needs to go back for the education that goes with his HS diploma.

[101stDad]

Who gives him the right to endanger the public like this.

So, who is he endangering?  He is abiding by the law.  And secondly, who gives him the right?  The laws of the state of Utah give him that right.  

[midtnvol]

So, who is he endangering?  He is abiding by the law.  And secondly, who gives him the right?  The laws of the state of Utah give him that right.  

First thought as to who is endandered would be innocent bystanders. You are correct in that the state of Utah gives him that right, thus my opinion that some kind of change is necessary. Keep in mind that I am big on second amendment rights but carrying an assault rifle around just to be seen is asking for trouble and nuts like this are (some of) the reasons for a need to change some things. I know a guy that I ran into while I was exiting Wal-Mart and he was packing heat on his hip. He was not a lawman but a guy we (TWRA) dealt with from time to time. He had a permit and knowing him as I do the only reason for him to be carrying was for show. The last few days there have been at least 5 people injured at gun shows (all by accident) across the nation. Some may have the right to tote but that doesn't mean they have the mental capacity to do so prudently.   

[BanditVol]

I don't think the guy targeted the school because it was gun free.  Supposedly he had some issues with his mother working there.  I would not be opposed to armed guards at schools.  Not at all. I think some inner city schools do have part time police on campus, though ICBW.

I also don't favor gun control, but does the second amendment really cover fully automatic assault rifles, and what are those for anyway?  What about grenades and rocket launchers?  Some common sense limits on caliber and automatic-fire capability, I don't see what the big deal is.

[101stDad]

I don't think the guy targeted the school because it was gun free.  Supposedly he had some issues with his mother working there.  I would not be opposed to armed guards at schools.  Not at all. I think some inner city schools do have part time police on campus, though ICBW.

I also don't favor gun control, but does the second amendment really cover fully automatic assault rifles, and what are those for anyway?  What about grenades and rocket launchers?  Some common sense limits on caliber and automatic-fire capability, I don't see what the big deal is.

No, his mother did not work there - never did.  That was false information the media put out there in their haste to get the scoop.  It was proved wrong.  Were I a gambling man, I would bet that he did target the school precisely because it is a gun free zone. 

What exactly, and be exact, is an assault rifle?  Are you referring to semi automatic rifles? 

Fully automatic rifles are already illegal.  Semi automatic rifles have to have the trigger pulled for each shot. 

And for the fans of "what are they thinking", the law that the state legislature of New York passed and that the Governor signed in to law failed to exempt law enforcement from possessing a magazine holding more than 7 rounds.  That means that now the criminals, who won't follow the law, now have more firepower than does law enforcement.  That's a result of the knee jerk reaction of the left.  They are going off half cocked (pun intended) without thinking about the consequences of their actions. 

[101stDad]

First thought as to who is endandered would be innocent bystanders. You are correct in that the state of Utah gives him that right, thus my opinion that some kind of change is necessary. Keep in mind that I am big on second amendment rights but carrying an assault rifle around just to be seen is asking for trouble and nuts like this are (some of) the reasons for a need to change some things. I know a guy that I ran into while I was exiting Wal-Mart and he was packing heat on his hip. He was not a lawman but a guy we (TWRA) dealt with from time to time. He had a permit and knowing him as I do the only reason for him to be carrying was for show. The last few days there have been at least 5 people injured at gun shows (all by accident) across the nation. Some may have the right to tote but that doesn't mean they have the mental capacity to do so prudently.   

OK, so exactly how is he endangering bystanders?  He has a permit to carry a weapon from the state of Utah. 

[midtnvol]

OK, so exactly how is he endangering bystanders?  He has a permit to carry a weapon from the state of Utah.  

I have to go back a couple of my posts but I stated if he runs into another person packing heat and intentions are misunderstood then it's OK Corral all over again. People fly off the handle all the time and there's no way to identify them until it's too late. If everybody had a sign to hang around their neck distinguishing the sane for the wackos, or one that says "Don't pi$$ me off, I'm having a bad day." then let's all go armed. If this guys intention was to scare the hell out of somebody then he succeeded in the case of the lady that took the picture. It may not scare somebody that's on a level playing field then you have a problem. Heck, of the five people hurt this past weekend at gun shows four were bystanders and only one guy shot himself in the hand.

[101stDad]

I have to go back a couple of my posts but I stated if he runs into another person packing heat and intentions are misunderstood then it's OK Corral all over again. People fly off the handle all the time and there's no way to identify them until it's too late. If everybody had a sign to hang around their neck distinguishing the sane for the wackos, or one that says "Don't pi$$ me off, I'm having a bad day." then let's all go armed. If this guys intention was to scare the hell out of somebody then he succeeded in the case of the lady that took the picture. It may not scare somebody that's on a level playing field then you have a problem. Heck, of the five people hurt this past weekend at gun shows four were bystanders and only one guy shot himself in the hand.

OK, again - he is a law abiding citizen with a permit to carry a weapon.  How is he endangering anybody?  What you posted doesn't answer anything.  You are assuming that individuals who legally own weapons and have permits to carry them aren't responsible enough to know when they should be used. 

Show me an example of where a person with a legal carry permit has committed a crime or done what you are claiming could happen.

 

[midtnvol]

Way too early to give examples since this carrying of AR-14's or other weapons openly is a revived concept of ancient times. I'm sure I could dig into archives of the 1870's to the early 1900's old west newspapers and find many accounts but I'm not that interested in the topic to do that. It's only my opinion just like most other posts here.
 
Case isn't decided yet but George Zimmerman has (or had) a permit and is charged with a crime (second degree murder). Not giving this example as a conviction of Zimmerman, I'll let the jury decide that. More http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/concerns-about-concealed-carry/homicides-committed-by-concealed-handgun-permit-holders-in-florida That's just in Florida. I didn't search any other states. As far as assuming that permit carriers don't have enough sense to do so responsibly, I gave one about the guy I met outside Wal-Mart. Given it's only my opinion having known him for over twenty-five years but my opinion counts too. He will never commit a crime with a gun again (previous violations were hunting related) since he passed away a few weeks ago.

[midtnvol]

OK, again - he is a law abiding citizen with a permit to carry a weapon.  How is he endangering anybody?  What you posted doesn't answer anything.  You are assuming that individuals who legally own weapons and have permits to carry them aren't responsible enough to know when they should be used.  

Show me an example of where a person with a legal carry permit has committed a crime or done what you are claiming could happen.

  

Here's an example FOR allowing people to tote guns unrestricted. It's from FOX NEWS so it may be slanted just a bit. (I'm just trying to be fair and balanced   ) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,149250,00.html

[Quasi EVol]

OK, again - he is a law abiding citizen with a permit to carry a weapon.  How is he endangering anybody?  What you posted doesn't answer anything.  You are assuming that individuals who legally own weapons and have permits to carry them aren't responsible enough to know when they should be used. 

Show me an example of where a person with a legal carry permit has committed a crime or done what you are claiming could happen.

Since you asked, I remember Harry Coleman was convicted of 2nd degree murder in Cordova while I was working in Memphis.
It was over a freakin' parking space.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/jul/16/coleman-guilty-Cordova-parking-lot-shooting/

While looking for a non-Commercial Appeal source for this (because you'll get a pay-firewall notice after clicking four links there), I found 117 HCP holders who were convicted for killings committed between 2007-2012 listed at http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwtotalkilled.pdf:

001) unknown #01 (4 Michigan   unnamed HCP holders convicted for 2010-2011 killings)
002) unknown #02
003) unknown #03
004) unknown #04
005) unknown #01 (3 Michigan   unnamed HCP holders convicted for 2009-2010 killings)
006) unknown #02
007) unknown #03
008) unknown #01 (1 Michigan   unnamed HCP holder  convicted for 2007-2008 killing)
009) unknown #01 (1 Minnesota unnamed HCP holder  convicted for 2008 killing)
010) unknown #01 (2 Texas       unnamed HCP holders convicted for 2011 killings)
011) unknown #02
012) unknown #01 (6 Texas       unnamed HCP holders convicted for 2010 killings)
013) unknown #02
014) unknown #03
015) unknown #04
016) unknown #05
017) unknown #06
018) unknown #01 (1 Texas      unnamed HCP holder  convicted for 2009 killing)
019) unknown #01 (3 Texas      unnamed HCP holders convicted for 2008 killings)
020) unknown #02
021) unknown #03
022) Bart Johnson
023) Laquintta Turk
024) Kathy Lowe
025) Joshua Jones
026) William Phillips
027) James Boll
028) David Noriega
029) Justin Campos
030) Leonel Marquetti
031) James Menard
032) Paul Merhige
033) Lenin Florian
034) Humberto Delgado
035) Andrew Conley
036) William Garrido
037) Dam Lopez
038) Paul Kallenbach
039) Guillermo Zarabozo
040) Ardese Day
041) Charles Johnston
042) Chris Stone
043) Jeremy Hobbs
044) Lucas Holland
045) William Calderon
046) Larry Wilson
047) Brian McGuire
048) William Seidl
049) Charles Richter
050) John Tassinari
051) Hayes Bacall
052) Edward Bell
053) Tigh Croff
054) Jamar Pinkney
055) Harlan Drake
056) Kevin Hoover
057) Salam Zora
058) Troy Brake
059) Michelle Wilson
060) Johnnie Pulley
061) Alex Kopystenski
062) Frank Garcia
063) Eric Gilbert
064) Lionel Loya
065) William Littleton
066) Bobby Bordeaux
067) John Gallaher
068) Jamez Mellion
069) David Ramey
070) Mark Langlois
071) Shawn Kortz
072) Matthew Warmus
073) Shamon McDavis
074) Matthew Culbertson
075) Ashford Thompson
076) Geraldine Beasley
077) Terrance Hough
078) Gary Buoy
079) Jerome Ersland
080) Kenneth Gumm
081) Tyler Smith
082) Joel Jensen
083) Marqus Hill
084) Yvonne Hiller
085) Paul Hansen
086) Kirk Caldwell
087) Greg Baker
088) Jonathan Reyes
089) Shannon Mayo
090) Johan Pujols
091) Joel Atkin
092) Richard Poplawski
093) Fernando Gotay
094) Christina Korbe
095) Nicholas Gianquitti
096) Julian Battle
097) Randolph Sims
098) Michael Hood
099) Frank Graham
100) Thomas Pate
101) Harry Coleman
102) Demetria Nance
103) Raul Rodriguez
104) Ronnie Cook
105) Alan Godin
106) Mary Hanson
107) David Ragsdale
108) Eugene C. Wright
109) Peter Simpson
110) Reginald Royals
111) Willie Donaldson
112) Evan Gargiulo
113) Wesley Earnest
114) Amanda Knight
115) Keira S. Earhart
116) Richard Peters
117) Christopher Bowling

...and 60 pending convictions for killings during the same period:

01) unknown #01 (5 Michigan  unnamed HCP holders charges are pending for 2010-2011 killings)
02) unknown #02
03) unknown #03
04) unknown #04
05) unknown #05
06) unknown #01 (3 Michigan  unnamed HCP holders charges are pending for 2009-2010 killings)
07) unknown #02
08) unknown #03
09) unknown #01 (5 Michigan  unnamed HCP holders charges are pending for 2007-2008 killings)
10) unknown #02
11) unknown #03
12) unknown #04
13) unknown #05
14) unknown #01 (1 unnamed state's unnamed HCP holder charges are pending for 2012 killing)
15) Tracey Grissom
16) Thomas Bodine
17) Solomon Davis
18) Vincent Williams
19) Richard Tauch
20) Daniel Baker
21) Allana Carey
22) Michael Dunn
23) Kenneth Roop
24) George Zimmerman
25) Wilmen Diaz
26) Hewart Bailey
27) Emanuel Rivera
28) Trevor Dooley
29) Narcisse Antoine
30) James Wonder
31) Gabriel Mobley
32) Adam Hill
33) Javaris Crittenton
34) David McCall
35) Jerry Bourque
36) Ed Myers
37) Akbar Rana
38) Michael Moreno
39) David Nesbitt
40) Darrell Laffoon
41) William Allabaugh
42) Kevin Cleeves
43) Andrew Gesslein
44) Robert Jones
45) Danny Kirtley
46) William Moreland
47) Matthew Miller
48) Gregory Booton
49) Norman Whitton
50) Troy Whiteside
51) Martino Johnson
52) Crystal Scott
53) Dennis Redding
54) William Franklin
55) Richard Calderon
56) Bradley Gregory
57) Ali Abid
58) Dinh Bowman
59) Eric Vita
60) Cornelius DeJong

[VOLMAN]

a 6 yr period (less than 20/yr) out weighs the over 2 million gun owners who prevented a crime against themselves just last year?