Mizzou players plan boycott?

[Navol]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/08/missouri-to-boycott-season-until-university-president-steps-down/

[Creek Walker]

I really wish someone would step up, forget all about political correctness, and revoke the scholarship of any player who refuses to participate in a practice or a game. There's no doubt racism is alive and well on the Mizzou campus, but from everything I've read, it isn't just the fault of the university leadership. This seems to have started with Ferguson, when some black students on campus were upset that Mizzou officials weren't condemning the police officer's actions — which we now know were justified, by the way. Those students took it upon themselves to find injustice where none existed and sparked a discord that has continued to grow since then.

[HerbTarlekVol]

I really wish someone would step up, forget all about political correctness, and revoke the scholarship of any player who refuses to participate in a practice or a game. There's no doubt racism is alive and well on the Mizzou campus, but from everything I've read, it isn't just the fault of the university leadership. This seems to have started with Ferguson, when some black students on campus were upset that Mizzou officials weren't condemning the police officer's actions — which we now know were justified, by the way. Those students took it upon themselves to find injustice where none existed and sparked a discord that has continued to grow since then.

Yep.  By refusing to prepare for games or participate in games they are breaching the contract they signed in the form of accepting an athletic scholarship. 

No play, no pay scholly. 

[PirateVOL]

I would reply to this thread but it would drive the thread to the other board.  Herb, please see my response in your friend's thread on another board.  That just scratches the thread of how I truly feel.

[Coupe De VOL]

If I was facing a potential horse whipping at home by the likes of BYU, I'd probably concoct some scheme to get out of it also.....

[Black Diamond Vol]

I really wish someone would step up, forget all about political correctness, and revoke the scholarship of any player who refuses to participate in a practice or a game. There's no doubt racism is alive and well on the Mizzou campus, but from everything I've read, it isn't just the fault of the university leadership. This seems to have started with Ferguson, when some black students on campus were upset that Mizzou officials weren't condemning the police officer's actions — which we now know were justified, by the way. Those students took it upon themselves to find injustice where none existed and sparked a discord that has continued to grow since then.

While I agree in theory, you know as well as I do that in today's climate, revoking their scholarships would basically be athletic department suicide.  They'd never sign another AA player, in ANY sport.  The players, assuming they follow through with their threat, are going to win here.  What's sad is that without football, most of them probably couldn't have gotten into a school like Mizzou anyway (assuming Mizzou is like most other Power 5 schools).  And they're going to be the ones to get the president of the university fired.  In today's PC climate, the tail truly wags the dog.

[VOLveeta]

I really wish someone would step up, forget all about political correctness, and revoke the scholarship of any player who refuses to participate in a practice or a game. There's no doubt racism is alive and well on the Mizzou campus, but from everything I've read, it isn't just the fault of the university leadership. This seems to have started with Ferguson, when some black students on campus were upset that Mizzou officials weren't condemning the police officer's actions — which we now know were justified, by the way. Those students took it upon themselves to find injustice where none existed and sparked a discord that has continued to grow since then.

Is there ANY situation in which you would support a scholarshipped student's right to conscientiously protest?

[HerbTarlekVol]

Is there ANY situation in which you would support a scholarshipped student's right to conscientiously protest?

Refusing to live up to a contractual obligation is not a protest.  It's a breech of contract.  

[PirateVOL]

Refusing to live up to a contractual obligation is not a protest.  It's a breech of contract.  

and nota "microagression" breech at that ...

[VOLveeta]

Refusing to live up to a contractual obligation is not a protest.  It's a breech of contract.  

Okay.  But the question WAS, "Is there ANY situation in which you would support a scholarshipped student's right to conscientiously protest?"

[HerbTarlekVol]

Okay.  But the question WAS, "Is there ANY situation in which you would support a scholarshipped student's right to conscientiously protest?"

Sure.  They can protest all they want, but if they fail to live up to the terms of their scholarship then they should be held accountable for breech of that contract. 

[VOLveeta]

Sure.  They can protest all they want, but if they fail to live up to the terms of their scholarship then they should be held accountable for breech of that contract.

Where would you stand if a coach instructs a player to intentionally injure a player on the opposing team and the player refuses?

[HerbTarlekVol]

Where would you stand if a coach instructs a player to intentionally injure a player on the opposing team and the player refuses?

Then the coach needs to be held accountable, but there is absolutely zero analogy between the players refusing to live up to their contract and what your hypothetical question.  The situation at Mizzou has nothing to do with their responsibility to get ready for and play in a football game. 

[Volznut]

If you're going to protest - hit them where it hurts. This is at least getting the issue attention, because without black players, imagine if you will trying to run a good football or basketball program?

All the info I have is what I have read - and it seems to be there's something to it, considering the admissions of a certain key person involved. The university can of course revoke their scholarships, but they'd be stupid to do so. $$$$ says that the issue has to be addressed.

[VOLveeta]

Then the coach needs to be held accountable, but there is absolutely zero analogy between the players refusing to live up to their contract and what your hypothetical question.  The situation at Mizzou has nothing to do with their responsibility to get ready for and play in a football game. 

I totally understand and honestly I'm trying to formulate an opinion of my own on this.  Look, I know my politics go WAY against the grain of what prevails here... but I'm not comfortable denying anyone the right to protest on principle in any/all/whatever situations.  I respect the contract but... things change and I have a problem saying that in the nest of maturing principles (institutions of higher learning) that ANYONE is denied the right to stand for something strictly because their talents warranted a scholarship.  I understand the black and white clarity of a contract... but I'm not comfortable saying that NO situation warrants the right.  Seems really dangerous to me.  I myself was a scholarshipped student and I protested against and helped get fired the head of a department (he was a drunk).  In the long run, the program was better for it and I would hate to think that a student loses the right to be him/herself because of that scholarship.  But I respect your opinion, sincerely.  I'm still not sure where I stand on this.

[HerbTarlekVol]

I totally understand and honestly I'm trying to formulate an opinion of my own on this.  Look, I know my politics go WAY against the grain of what prevails here... but I'm not comfortable denying anyone the right to protest on principle in any/all/whatever situations.  I respect the contract but... things change and I have a problem saying that in the nest of maturing principles (institutions of higher learning) that ANYONE is denied the right to stand for something strictly because their talents warranted a scholarship.  I understand the black and white clarity of a contract... but I'm not comfortable saying that NO situation warrants the right.  Seems really dangerous to me.  I myself was a scholarshipped student and I protested against and helped get fired the head of a department (he was a drunk).  In the long run, the program was better for it and I would hate to think that a student loses the right to be him/herself because of that scholarship.  But I respect your opinion, sincerely.  I'm still not sure where I stand on this.

It's pretty simple.  

The players can protest all they want.  Refusing to do what they promised to do in return for their educations being paid for has ZERO to do with their right to protest.  

These are two totally different issues.  

Nobody is depriving them the right to protest, but by refusing to honor their commitment they are denying the University a promise they made to them and they should be held accountable for it.

What would happen if you decided not to show up and fulfill your contractual obligations according to your contract of employment?  Would you expect to get a paycheck and continue to be employed?    

[VOLveeta]

It's pretty simple.  

The players can protest all they want.  Refusing to do what they promised to do in return for their educations being paid for has ZERO to do with their right to protest.  

These are two totally different issues.  

Nobody is depriving them the right to protest, but by refusing to honor their commitment they are denying the University a promise they made to them and they should be held accountable for it.

What would happen if you decided not to show up and fulfill your contractual obligations according to your contract of employment?  Would you expect to get a paycheck and continue to be employed?    

Fortunately... thank GOD I have a union to protect me in such a situation.  I am grateful that my contract does not deny me the right to refuse the job should an unacceptable situation arise and that I have a union to back me.  We'll just respectfully disagree here.  I cannot be cool when NO MATTER WHAT, any American cannot oppose and refuse a "wrong" situation and therefore be dismissed.  We simply, RESPECTFULLY disagree.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Fortunately... thank GOD I have a union to protect me in such a situation.  I am grateful that my contract does not deny me the right to refuse the job should an unacceptable situation arise and that I have a union to back me.  We'll just respectfully disagree here.  I cannot be cool when NO MATTER WHAT, any American cannot oppose and refuse a "wrong" situation and therefore be dismissed.  We simply, RESPECTFULLY disagree.

So, your union protects you when you intentionally refuse to honor your commitment to the employer that is spelled out in that contract between the yourself, the union and the employer? 

You could live with that? 

And therein lies the rub - commitment doesn't mean a damn in this country any longer. 

[VOLveeta]

So, your union protects you when you intentionally refuse to honor your commitment to the employer that is spelled out in that contract between the yourself, the union and the employer? 

You could live with that? 

And therein lies the rub - commitment doesn't mean a damn in this country any longer. 

As I said, RESPECTFULLY disagree with you.  Peace out.

[HerbTarlekVol]

As I said, RESPECTFULLY disagree with you.  Peace out.

I'm completely peaceful.  Just making the point that the Mizzou players' rights to protest has zero to do with their refusing to live up to their commitment.  Absolutely zero.

[Volznut]

I'm completely peaceful.  Just making the point that the Mizzou players' rights to protest has zero to do with their refusing to live up to their commitment.  Absolutely zero.

It's a social protest herb. It's emotional.

[Creek Walker]

Is there ANY situation in which you would support a scholarshipped student's right to conscientiously protest?

If I'm inferring too much, I'll apologize in advance, but as I read between the lines it appears to me that your question is implying that I'm racist, which is all too common in these debates. The answer, by the way, is sure. Any student can protest all they want, so long as they honor their contractual obligation and they're not disruptive. Which is to say, I agree with Herb.

Obviously this will work in the students' favor, as BDV said. No one has the cahones to stand up to it.

The bottom line to all of this is we have a racism problem in America. But it works both ways. Until both sides start to be held to the same standard, we're chasing our tail.

[VOLveeta]

If I'm inferring too much, I'll apologize in advance, but as I read between the lines it appears to me that your question is implying that I'm racist, which is all too common in these debates. The answer, by the way, is sure. Any student can protest all they want, so long as they honor their contractual obligation and they're not disruptive. Which is to say, I agree with Herb.

Obviously this will work in the students' favor, as BDV said. No one has the cahones to stand up to it.

The bottom line to all of this is we have a racism problem in America. But it works both ways. Until both sides start to be held to the same standard, we're chasing our tail.

NO NO NO NO!  In no way, shape or form am I "inferring" anything.  I'm just GENUINELY trying to formulate my own position here.  Please believe me, I'm coming from a lifetime of conservatism and within the last five years questioning a lot of that.  What I'm trying to grasp is... whether this "contract" denies any student the right to essentially strike.   I'm not yet comfy saying "no".  I don't like the concept that a college student is denied the right to "protest by not performing the duties" in order to stand up for principles.

I despise the whole Kim Davis situation, for example.  I've thought she should just "do her effing job" as EVERYONE in Morehead KY whom I asked said about her (I was there recently).  But now... when it is suggested that the scholarship revokes the right to "strike"... I ponder.  I'm honestly just trying to formulate an opinion.  I'm not inferring anything.

[BanditVol]

I really wish someone would step up, forget all about political correctness, and revoke the scholarship of any player who refuses to participate in a practice or a game. There's no doubt racism is alive and well on the Mizzou campus, but from everything I've read, it isn't just the fault of the university leadership. This seems to have started with Ferguson, when some black students on campus were upset that Mizzou officials weren't condemning the police officer's actions — which we now know were justified, by the way. Those students took it upon themselves to find injustice where none existed and sparked a discord that has continued to grow since then.

While I think the guy shot in Ferguson was a thug and it's highly likely he contributed to the incident, short of a cam on the policeman there isn't any way "we" can "know" anything.

All that can be said is that there was a hearing and the officer was exonerated.  There are reports of "testimony" by "unidentified" witnesses in certain media, but has anyone seen a transcript of the hearing itself or the actual testimony or evidence that was presented there? 

Just saying, the officer was exonerated and based on what little I actually know, that was probably justified.  But that's a far cry from "knowing" anything.   

 

[FLVOL]

Okay.  But the question WAS, "Is there ANY situation in which you would support a scholarshipped student's right to conscientiously protest?"

I'm of a different breed, but in my book, there is no situation which justifies the protest. You're turning your back on the institution that has given you a gift, and your intent of protesting is to smear that institution.

If you want to protest, then do so after you leave.