Butch "will not be a candidate" at UM

[VinnieVOL]

Supposedly, you know... according to "sources".  I do find it interesting, though, that they did (supposedly)  reach out to him.


http://footballscoop.com/news/michigan-struggling-find-next-head-coach/

[murfvol]

I'm betting the source is an agent. There's a slew of coaches more proven than Jones. I like where recruiting, special teams, and defense are, but the offense is iffy, and the jury is out on whether he can outcoach anyone.

On a related note, I'm not a fan of giving him a raise - at all. 

[BanditVol]

I'm betting the source is an agent. There's a slew of coaches more proven than Jones. I like where recruiting, special teams, and defense are, but the offense is iffy, and the jury is out on whether he can outcoach anyone.

On a related note, I'm not a fan of giving him a raise - at all. 

Has that even been discussed?  I would not even giving a raise to a coach that went 6-6.  Let him get us to the SECC next year, and give him a huge raise.

I am pretty sure he gets a bonus for going to a bowl, which is about right for this season.  IMO.

[Tnphil]

IMO there was/is no chance Butch would be offered the Mich. job.

[Black Diamond Vol]

Unfortunately, that's the name of the game these days.  If your coach exceeds expectations in the slightest (or even if he just meets them), you'll be expected to give him a raise/extension, or rivals will use it against you in recruiting. 

[VinnieVOL]

IMO there was/is no chance Butch would be offered the Mich. job.

Why would they reach out/gauge interest then?

[VOLMAN]

this year and this coupled with his recruiting success I would have no problem giving him a raise. I don't think an extension (with 4 yrs remaining) is warranted....if we see continued success an extension can be granted next year (I understand recruits like for the coach they sign with to have at least 4 yrs on their contract so they know who they're likely to be playing for).     

[LouisVOL]

Sport talk show in Louisville this am said word from Michigan is they will not move on before they have an absolute no from Harbaugh, Les Miles, and Butch Jones.  Their Rivals/Scout boards are certainly mentioning and in some cases touting Butch.  I suspect a lot of this comes from the fact that Las Vegas made Butch 7/2 odds behind only Harbaugh at 2/1 and Miles at 5/2.  So I really don't think this talk is agent fueled, just typical "lets hire this guy" syndrome in this glorious age of Al's internet.

[HerbTarlekVol]

I tend to believe that Jones will remain at UT, BUT we all know those famous words of Nick Saban and the Bama job early on. 

Coaches are born liars.  They do it on the recruiting trail, and they do it in reference to jobs they may or may not be interested in.  It's just the nature of the beast. 

Bottom line - when the Michigan job is filled and it's not Butch Jones then I will believe the denial, and then only halfway believe it.  Again, if they get to Butch Jones they they are way down on their list, just as UT was.  He just hasn't done enough in terms of winning at UT at this point to be considered a "top tier" candidate. 

[volmeister]

Why would they reach out/gauge interest then?

Literally, they didn't, actually they did, but literally they didn't.

[VinnieVOL]

Literally, they didn't, actually they did, but literally they didn't.

Oh, I gotcha.  With a wink and a nudge.. eh?   

[volmeister]

Oh, I gotcha.  With a wink and a nudge.. eh?   

Sounds like you have been "Slived"

[BanditVol]

Well Butch is from Michigan, so it's natural they might consider him, I suppose.

Michigan doesn't have much more tradition than us, other than a better win percentage.  We are pretty much even in national championships, and for a while we had a bigger stadium also. 

[Clockwork Orange]

Well Butch is from Michigan, so it's natural they might consider him, I suppose.

Michigan doesn't have much more tradition than us, other than a better win percentage.  We are pretty much even in national championships, and for a while we had a bigger stadium also. 

I think Michigan is a notch ahead of us in terms of national prestige. Top 3 all time, perhaps, while we are more like top 10. But it's harder to recruit to, since nobody wants to spend winters in Michigan.

[HerbTarlekVol]

I think Michigan is a notch ahead of us in terms of national prestige. Top 3 all time, perhaps, while we are more like top 10. But it's harder to recruit to, since nobody wants to spend winters in Michigan.

I agree with you on both points, CO.  Traditionally Michigan is on a higher level of prestige than UT is.  I think too many UT fans believe that we are still at that "elite" level that we enjoyed for a few years, but we just aren't right now.  But of course, neither is Michigan at this point.  I really long for those days to return to UT sooner rather than late.   

And the weather is a real issue in the northeast and midwest when it comes to recruiting.  Michigan only has 6 players on its roster from south of the Mason-Dixon line - a couple from Texas, a couple from Virginia, one from California, and Alex Bars from Nashville.  It's just tough for somebody from a warm or moderate weather climate to handle the harsh winters.  I know that the winter weather was one of the most difficult issues that my son had to deal with when he went from East Tennessee to West Point, NY, to attend the USMA.  It just gets downright brutally frigid there and that is something that you can't prepare for. 

[Memphisvolunteer]

I agree that Michigan has the tradition and is seen as a top school, but if you are Butch, Why would you want to go there?  He would have to start over and completely rebuild there.  While at UT, he has recruited his butt off the past 2 years and has UT where they are going to be competitive again.  Why would you let another coach come to UT and have success with what you did vs rebuild another program?  Also, Michigan is in a section of  the US where it is going to be harder  and harder to recruit to.  Yes, they have tradition but Michigan isn't spitting out the top level kids anymore because their major Metro areas up there are decling in population and most kids that are hot up and comers are coming from the south.  In fact, Nashville is projected to spit out more D1 talent in the next several years and when you add Atlanta, the carolinas, etc UT is in a better recruiting area than Michigan. 

The fact is, it just doesn't make sense for Butch to go to Michigan.  The only reason people say that is  because he is from that state.  He has no ties to the school and didn't even attend Michigan.

[HerbTarlekVol]

I agree that Michigan has the tradition and is seen as a top school, but if you are Butch, Why would you want to go there?  He would have to start over and completely rebuild there.  While at UT, he has recruited his butt off the past 2 years and has UT where they are going to be competitive again.  Why would you let another coach come to UT and have success with what you did vs rebuild another program?  Also, Michigan is in a section of  the US where it is going to be harder  and harder to recruit to.  Yes, they have tradition but Michigan isn't spitting out the top level kids anymore because their major Metro areas up there are decling in population and most kids that are hot up and comers are coming from the south.  In fact, Nashville is projected to spit out more D1 talent in the next several years and when you add Atlanta, the carolinas, etc UT is in a better recruiting area than Michigan. 

The fact is, it just doesn't make sense for Butch to go to Michigan.  The only reason people say that is  because he is from that state.  He has no ties to the school and didn't even attend Michigan.

So, which school - Michigan in the BigHoweverManySchoolsThereAreInThatLeagueNow or Tennessee in the SEC - would you have the better opportunity to consistently be at the top of the conference?

At Michigan, you have Ohio State and Michigan State and then everybody else.

At Tennessee, you are bottom third trying to climb in the toughest college football league in America. 

Why would he go to Michigan?  I think there are a lot of good reasons, but there are a lot of good reasons to stay at UT, as well.

Point being - staying at UT over Michigan isn't the slam dunk that many UT fans believe it to be. 

And like it or not, Michigan could pay a coach twice what UT can should it come down to money. 

[BanditVol]

I think Michigan is a notch ahead of us in terms of national prestige. Top 3 all time, perhaps, while we are more like top 10. But it's harder to recruit to, since nobody wants to spend winters in Michigan.

I don't know what you mean by "Top 3".  They are 1st in number of victories and second only to Notre Dame in win percentage, so clearly they are elite in that area.

However, they have won two widely recognized national championships and so have we.  They probably have more conference championships, but we are second in the SEC and that is pretty darn good.

I use all four of those criteria when judging a program.  I mark UM down due to the lack of championships.  If you have more wins than any other D1 program, there should be more championships to go with it, IMO. 

Overall, I would rate them about 6-7 and UT 10-11, so I do agree with you.  But I call that a notch better...not an overwhelming lead IMO.

For the record my top 10 is:

1 Notre Dame
2 Bammer (with reluctance  )
3 Southern Cal
4 OU
5 Nebraska
6 OSU
7 Michigan
8 Texas
9 Penn State
10 Vols

But that's based on, in rough order of importance, national championships (widely recognized only), win percentage, total wins, conference championships, bowls.

It's also based on the entire history of college football.  Were I to limit it to the last 50 years, Miami and FSU would obviously be in there.  As it is, they are just outside the top 10 even having only been good for 30 years or so.

[Memphisvolunteer]

So, which school - Michigan in the BigHoweverManySchoolsThereAreInThatLeagueNow or Tennessee in the SEC - would you have the better opportunity to consistently be at the top of the conference?

At Michigan, you have Ohio State and Michigan State and then everybody else.

At Tennessee, you are bottom third trying to climb in the toughest college football league in America. 

Why would he go to Michigan?  I think there are a lot of good reasons, but there are a lot of good reasons to stay at UT, as well.

Point being - staying at UT over Michigan isn't the slam dunk that many UT fans believe it to be. 

And like it or not, Michigan could pay a coach twice what UT can should it come down to money. 

I agree with you that Michigan can pay more than UT and I agree with you sort of that it is easier to win in the Big 10 than the SEC.  However, my point was that where Michigan is now, they aren't close to competing and it would be a complete rebuilding job to get it back to where you are competing against Ohio St and Michigan State.  And many of us have stated that it is getting harder to recruit at places like Michigan because of 1) weather and 2) the population base is declining.  When you look at UT, you have spent the past 2 1/2 years rebuilding the talent base and you have it about where you are going to start competing again with the big boys.  Why would you want to give that  to someone else and not achieve the glory and instead go to a program that you will have to rebuild from scratch again?  It is about to get fun again at UT where Michigan still has some tough years ahead.

Also, if you look at how the Big 10 is structured now, you have Ohio State and Michigan State in your same division, not to mention Wisconsin and Nebraska in the other side.  if Franklin can turn Penn State back around, which you have gone on record as saying the Franklin is a heck of a coach, so there is no reason to think he won't turn it around.  So you have 4 teams competing for that division.  You You look at UT, and yes, UF and UGa will probably always be fighting it out with us, but you basically have a 4 team race in this division too with the added bonus of recruiting in Nashville, the Carolinas, and atlanta.