How much has our running game improved? Consider this...

[Volznut]

Rushing stats for THE ENTIRE 2011 SEASON:

392 carries, 1081 yards, 2.8 YPC, 11 TDs

Rushing stats through the first FIVE games of 2012:

195 carries, 887 yards, 4.5 ypc, 10 TDs

So we're on pace to have 468 carries, 2129 yards, and 24 rushing TDs this year.

[Inspector Vol]

The o-line has picked it up, now if the defense wasn't a complete turd it might be making a difference.  Everyone is all over Bray and the wr's for the drops but the fact is if the defense could find a ball carrier we would be 5-0. The reality is we aren't and no amount of sugar is going to make a bitter pill easier to swallow. 

msu, uat and sc will run us to death until we can figure out how to stop something as simple as a sweep.   

[Volznut]

Not if the defense improves. I am sure the coaches will be working on that.

[Clockwork Orange]

Not if the defense improves. I am sure the coaches will be working on that.

We got burned for two easy TDs on outside runs against UF, two weeks before the UGA game. We didn't look any better against UGA. I hope like hell the coaches are working on it but the returns so far aren't pretty.

[Volznut]

We got burned for two easy TDs on outside runs against UF, two weeks before the UGA game. We didn't look any better against UGA. I hope like hell the coaches are working on it but the returns so far aren't pretty.

well, the point of the OP was to call attention to the fact that the coaches were able to make a major improvement in the run game this year, and it's evident in the stats. I realize that the defense has been bad, and so do the coaches, so maybe they will get some things corrected in the off week. We're not going to be drastically better this year on defense, but I'd hope we can have improvements as the season progresses.

[murfvol]

I have been extremely encouraged by our production in the run game. Obviously there are some concerns elsewhere, but the fact the run game seems to be fixed shows a) the coaches can recognize a problem and b) the coaches can fix the problem.

It remains to be seen if they can fix some problems, but here's what I see the past three years.
1) No depth: fixed
2) No game breakers: fixed
3) No running game: fixed
4) Poor substitution patterns/late game meltdowns: incomplete

There are still issues, but the above were massive and have been addressed. I'm stand by my statement there have to be 8 regular season wins, but I think we can get there. I'd prefer we be further along, but there is progress.

[Clockwork Orange]

well, the point of the OP was to call attention to the fact that the coaches were able to make a major improvement in the run game this year, and it's evident in the stats. I realize that the defense has been bad, and so do the coaches, so maybe they will get some things corrected in the off week. We're not going to be drastically better this year on defense, but I'd hope we can have improvements as the season progresses.

Oh, I'm pleased with the progress in the run game and wish we hadn't abandoned it when the defense failed us against UF. But it's a step forward there and a step back on defense, so if we're measuring the staff's ability to fix things it's been a wash.

I know you're just trying to talk football but it's just hard for me to think about bright spots when the big picture looks like a big pile of dog shizzle.

[Volznut]

Oh, I'm pleased with the progress in the run game and wish we hadn't abandoned it when the defense failed us against UF. But it's a step forward there and a step back on defense, so if we're measuring the staff's ability to fix things it's been a wash.

I know you're just trying to talk football but it's just hard for me to think about bright spots when the big picture looks like a big pile of dog shizzle.

I disagree with your last point, to me we're improving. To me the big picture is that we are showing signs of improvement, and the coaches have done some good things. I think this team still has a chance to have a good season. There are things like the defense and placekicking that need to be fixed. Some people are impatient and want to see wins now, and I understand that - we're going to have our opportunities.

[Clockwork Orange]

Some people are impatient and want to see wins now, and I understand that - we're going to have our opportunities.

I believe it is a mischaracterization to call me and other UT fans "impatient" for expecting a coaching staff in its third year to beat somebody with a pulse.

[Volznut]

I believe it is a mischaracterization to call me and other UT fans "impatient" for expecting a coaching staff in its third year to beat somebody with a pulse.

No, you're expecting a coach in his third year to have a team rebuilt and beat a top SEC team, not just someone with a "pulse". A coach who inherited a mess. Yes, I would say that's impatient...but yes, since we have had no success since 2007, I can understand it. I feel impatient sometimes too, but I haven't given up on this staff, and I actually do think we will have a good season this year. I think we're improving, and should beat MSU for one. That's a team that isn't a "top" SEC team, but a top 25 type team we should beat with this team. It would be a start.

[BanditVol]

I believe it is a mischaracterization to call me and other UT fans "impatient" for expecting a coaching staff in its third year to beat somebody with a pulse.

Yes, but last year was exceptionally bad with injuries.  I think most if not all fans remained patient through all that. 

When we lost to UK, it suddenly focused attention on the fact that the staff had issues also, and perhaps helped lead to the massive defections/restructuring of the staff.

But apparently it was a "wake up call" and IMO the current staff has responded.  DD has to know his margin of error is pretty thin right now.

Along those lines, it appears to me that the uga game woke up the staff again on the run D.  It almost seems as if they may have brushed off the earlier long runs as a fluke or unusual breakdown, but can no longer ignore the magnitude of the problem.  That lack of attention to detail might be an issue in itself (but it's just an opinion and ICBW), but what matters now is how they respond:

http://www.govolsxtra.com/news/2012/oct/02/derek-dooley-vols-will-define-themselves-week/?partner=popular

Lathers picked improved alignment and better recognition of offensive formations to help stem the big plays that have plagued the Vols’ defense.

“In the SEC, teams are going to try to run on you -- especially now after the Georgia game,” Lathers said.

They are at least saying the right things and the focus is where it should be.  Will it work?  We'll find out in a couple weeks. 

[RipleyVol12]

We only had a total of 5 negative yards plays against Georgia. We haven't done that in awhile.

GO VOLS!   

[Volznut]

I will put it this way. if we continue on our pace in the running game, we WILL have a good season. I don't think anyone left on our schedule has the offense UGA has.

[Clockwork Orange]

No, you're expecting a coach in his third year to have a team rebuilt and beat a top SEC team, not just someone with a "pulse".

Our best wins in three years are over Cincinnati and Vanderbilt. I don't think we're going to look back at the end of this year and feel so great about the win over NCSU. We have 4 SEC wins in 2+ years and they are over Vandy, Kentucky, and Ole Miss. I don't think expecting more than that qualifies me as impatient.

I understand the task Dooley inherited and the challenges he has faced. I like the guy very much. I wish he were a great coach and we could keep him for a long time. I see no evidence that this is the case.

It's hard for me to put into words what that Florida game did to me as a fan. To live here, to work here, to feel the energy (it literally felt "like '98"), and to go all-in-- full investment-- and then to see your team and coaches fall apart at the first sign of danger . . . well, that's some pretty serious fan trauma. It's hard for me to imagine anyone who attended that game feels much differently from the way I feel now.

I am still watching and I'm still hoping that Dooley makes all critics eat crow, but I have no chips on the table anymore. I lost them two weeks ago and haven't re-bought.

[Inspector Vol]

Our best wins in three years are over Cincinnati and Vanderbilt. I don't think we're going to look back at the end of this year and feel so great about the win over NCSU. We have 4 SEC wins in 2+ years and they are over Vandy, Kentucky, and Ole Miss. I don't think expecting more than that qualifies me as impatient.

I understand the task Dooley inherited and the challenges he has faced. I like the guy very much. I wish he were a great coach and we could keep him for a long time. I see no evidence that this is the case.

It's hard for me to put into words what that Florida game did to me as a fan. To live here, to work here, to feel the energy (it literally felt "like '98"), and to go all-in-- full investment-- and then to see your team and coaches fall apart at the first sign of danger . . . well, that's some pretty serious fan trauma. It's hard for me to imagine anyone who attended that game feels much differently from the way I feel now.

I am still watching and I'm still hoping that Dooley makes all critics eat crow, but I have no chips on the table anymore. I lost them two weeks ago and haven't re-bought.

That is exactly where I am. Beat someone besides who you are supposed to and I will buy a few chips. Every opportunity we have had to pull a major upset or any upset we have crapped the bed at crunch time. That is on Dooley fair or not.

[Volznut]

Our best wins in three years are over Cincinnati and Vanderbilt. I don't think we're going to look back at the end of this year and feel so great about the win over NCSU. We have 4 SEC wins in 2+ years and they are over Vandy, Kentucky, and Ole Miss. I don't think expecting more than that qualifies me as impatient.

I understand the task Dooley inherited and the challenges he has faced. I like the guy very much. I wish he were a great coach and we could keep him for a long time. I see no evidence that this is the case.

It's hard for me to put into words what that Florida game did to me as a fan. To live here, to work here, to feel the energy (it literally felt "like '98"), and to go all-in-- full investment-- and then to see your team and coaches fall apart at the first sign of danger . . . well, that's some pretty serious fan trauma. It's hard for me to imagine anyone who attended that game feels much differently from the way I feel now.

I am still watching and I'm still hoping that Dooley makes all critics eat crow, but I have no chips on the table anymore. I lost them two weeks ago and haven't re-bought.

NC state isn't that bad, they will be a bowl team. Florida- problem is that we all expected FL to be bad offensively this year, and that hasn't been the case. They are a much better team that everyone expected them to be, and they, IMO will challenge for the east. They have a solid OL, run game, a QB who doesn't make mistakes, and a great D.

Also...didn't want this to be another thread rehashing the same shizzle. It's supposed to be a thread about the OL and run game, which is a positive. Too many people don't want to discuss anything positive and immediately want to talk about the negative.

[BanditVol]

I wonder if MSU will be favored.  Since they should beat UK this weekend and be around 15th, they SHOULD be favored.

Further, let's face it, last year we were in the bottom, VERY bottom of the SEC.  The only team clearly worse than us was Ole Miss. You could make a case for Vandy since we beat them, but they had more SEC wins.  You could make a case for UK, but they beat us.  

But right now, I would put us in the middle of the pack, even if we have not won an SEC game yet.  We lost to what are at least two of the three best, if not two best, teams in the East, and could have won either.  That means, to me, not only are we back in the middle of the pack, but are on the verge of being in the top group of contenders.

MSU is clearly the 3rd best team in the West.  So this game coming up, IMO, is a clear test of whether we are a middle of the pack team moving up, or one stuck in the middle, or even moving back towards the bottom.

[Volznut]

I wonder if MSU will be favored.  Since they should beat UK this weekend and be around 15th, they SHOULD be favored.

Further, let's face it, last year we were in the bottom, VERY bottom of the SEC.  The only team clearly worse than us was Ole Miss. You could make a case for Vandy since we beat them, but they had more SEC wins.  You could make a case for UK, but they beat us.   

But right now, I would put us in the middle of the pack, even if we have not won an SEC game yet.  We lost to what are at least two of the three best, if not two best, teams in the East, and could have won either.  That means, to me, not only are we back in the middle of the pack, but are on the verge of being in the top group of contenders.

MSU is clearly the 3rd best team in the West.  So this game coming up, IMO, is a clear test of whether we are a middle of the pack team moving up, or one stuck in the middle, or even moving back towards the bottom.


My

MSU is a top 25 team playing at home. They will be favored.

[Clockwork Orange]

Also...didn't want this to be another thread rehashing the same shizzle. It's supposed to be a thread about the OL and run game, which is a positive. Too many people don't want to discuss anything positive and immediately want to talk about the negative.

Apologies, though I was directly responding to something you said. I'll bow out. It's not exactly fun to talk about anyway.

[Jedi Master]

To UT's credit, it has undoubtedly has improved its run game this year relative to past years.  But I want to share some insight into UT's success running against UGA.  

CMR's basic philosophy for offense is that, when facing cover-2, is that you must be able to run the ball successfully, or you do not deserve to win.  When you run the ball successfully against cover-2, the defense will almost always bring its safeties up closer to the box in run support.  The offense then counters by going to the deep pass.  This philosophy is commonly shared amongst many offensive coaches/coordinators at every level of football.

Grantham understands this philosophy, and understands that Chaney was likely salivating to send his WRs deep, so he decided to not play this game within the game.  Grantham not only adamantly played cover-2, but put his safeties especially deep to ensure UT's WR would not get behind them.  (i.e., he respected Hunter, CP and ZRogers ability to get deep) The key is, when UT started running successfully against UGA's cover-2 Saturday, Grantham did not bring his safeties up in run support.  With a lead, he decided he that he would not risk getting beat deep - no matter what.  He made a conscious decision to not adjust to UT's rushing success.  Therefore, UT continued to succeed in the run game but didn't have hardly any opportunities deep.   With a 2nd half lead, Grantham's perspective is that UT's own run game would run down the clock and UGA's defense would not give up the quick deep scoring pass.  He likely would have been forced to take the risk of bringing his safeties up to the box if UT had a 2nd half lead.  Again, credit to UT because they were able to run against cover-2 throughout the game.  UGA was fortuanate that UT's defense was poor and that it was able to maintain a lead.  

[Inspector Vol]

To UT's credit, it has undoubtedly has improved its run game this year relative to past years.  But I want to share some insight into UT's success running against UGA.  

CMR's basic philosophy for offense is that, when facing cover-2, is that you must be able to run the ball successfully, or you do not deserve to win.  When you run the ball successfully against cover-2, the defense will almost always bring its safeties up closer to the box in run support.  The offense then counters by going to the deep pass.  This philosophy is commonly shared amongst many offensive coaches/coordinators at every level of football.

Grantham understands this philosophy, and understands that Chaney was likely salivating to send his WRs deep, so he decided to not play this game within the game.  Grantham not only adamantly played cover-2, but put his safeties especially deep to ensure UT's WR would not get behind them.  (i.e., he respected Hunter, CP and ZRogers ability to get deep) The key is, when UT started running successfully against UGA's cover-2 Saturday, Grantham did not bring his safeties up in run support.  With a lead, he decided he that he would not risk getting beat deep - no matter what.  He made a conscious decision to not adjust to UT's rushing success.  Therefore, UT continued to succeed in the run game but didn't have hardly any opportunities deep.   With a 2nd half lead, Grantham's perspective is that UT's own run game would run down the clock and UGA's defense would not give up the quick deep scoring pass.  He likely would have been forced to take the risk of bringing his safeties up to the box if UT had a 2nd half lead.  Again, credit to UT because they were able to run against cover-2 throughout the game.  UGA was fortuanate that UT's defense was poor and that it was able to maintain a lead.  

That all sounds good but we lost end of story. We had to come out and score to take a lead when we got the ball 1st after the half but we crapped the bed just like we always do when its crunch time. Then we went down 2 scores and the game was over because of what you described above. We not only gave up a ton of yards rushing we couldn't even find the damn ball half the time its seemed.

Until I see different I will assume we will crap the bed every time the game gets tight or we have a golden opportunity to put a team away and actually do it. We are improved.........but not enough. There are errors we are making we should not be at this point.

[murfvol]

1) Good stuff Jedi.

2) I'm optimistic about the MSU game. If we stink it up against them then getting to the eight wins I decreed were neccessary is much more difficult (not that anyone cares).

[WoodstockVol]

NC state isn't that bad, they will be a bowl team. Florida- problem is that we all expected FL to be bad offensively this year, and that hasn't been the case. They are a much better team that everyone expected them to be, and they, IMO will challenge for the east. They have a solid OL, run game, a QB who doesn't make mistakes, and a great D.

Also...didn't want this to be another thread rehashing the same shizzle. It's supposed to be a thread about the OL and run game, which is a positive. Too many people don't want to discuss anything positive and immediately want to talk about the negative.


You're right NCSU will probably be 7-5 and probably go to the Belk Bowl in Charlotte

[murfvol]

Let me toss out this lame analogy. Say a kid is failing a class. I mean really failing class. One six weeks he gets a 35. The next six weeks he get a 48 so he's still really failing. The third six weeks he records a 62. That's failing bad, but it shows substantial progress. Will he ever become a "B" student? I don't know, but there's at least progress.

[ReVOLver]

NC state isn't that bad, they will be a bowl team. Florida- problem is that we all expected FL to be bad offensively this year, and that hasn't been the case. They are a much better team that everyone expected them to be, and they, IMO will challenge for the east. They have a solid OL, run game, a QB who doesn't make mistakes, and a great D.

Also...didn't want this to be another thread rehashing the same shizzle. It's supposed to be a thread about the OL and run game, which is a positive. Too many people don't want to discuss anything positive and immediately want to talk about the negative.

Your last sentence could just as easily say "Too many people disagree with me and don't want to talk about what I want to talk about, even though they may have some valid points."

I sure hope the Vols beat MSU, because if not, I'm going to be unbearable on here to some of you who sit there and act like improvement is losing a game you should've won because you allowed three long runs where the player was never touched, missed a FG and a XP, turned the ball over three times in critical situations, dropped an open TD pass, had 9 guys on the field on a critical 2 point try, and gave up 51 mf'ing points. If we play to the bitter end but lose to MSU, will that be OK?

Improvement = finding a way to win those games. Moral victories are for losers and suckers. Dooley has tricked all of you into thinking it's OK to play close.

I hate what the Vol fan base has become.