Basilio this morning...

[Creek Walker]

Basilio says that Gruden's agent has told UT that Gruden will take the job if the money is right, and reports the same things Hyams reported yesterday about what Gruden wants ($5 yr/10 yrs and $4 million for assistants).

With Basilio and Hyams reporting it, it must be true. 

[10EC]

I swear, I'll send money to the UTAD tomorrow if they will just do this.  I swear we ought to fire up a grass roots effort.

[BanditVol]

I don't have a problem with $5 mil a year, but 10 years is ridiculous.  If you're going to give a guy more money, give him a shorter time and a smaller buyout.

[ReVOLver]

I don't have a problem with $5 mil a year, but 10 years is ridiculous.  If you're going to give a guy more money, give him a shorter time and a smaller buyout.

This stance drives me nuts. I don't care how they kill they cow, I want a steak on my plate and I want it yesterday.

[BanditVol]

This stance drives me nuts. I don't care how they kill they cow, I want a steak on my plate and I want it yesterday.

LOL.  So you're happy that Dooley has a $ 5 million buyout?

As a fan, you can have whatever stance you want.  Hart has to look out for the good of the department.  Dooley's contract is so disadvantageous to us that in spite of the really crappy 3-year run we are on, I think it's still possible (maybe not likely, but possible) that Hart retains him.

So yeah, let's go ahead and give another guy TEN YEARS (unprecedented - also almost certainly BS, but I digress) and a huge buyout so we can get stuck with his dum ass also if he doesn't work out (whether it's Gruden or someone else).

This is key to me...you want a hot coach?  You want the guy to take us to the next level (or several levels, lol)?  And you want to pay him as much as it takes, right?

Well if he's all that, then let him man up and accept some risk.  No big buyout, and 5 years, maybe 4, at the most. 

That's just good business.

I realize that you are speaking as a fan, but to me it's just COMMON sense, let alone business sense.

[Clockwork Orange]

LOL.  So you're happy that Dooley has a $ 5 million buyout?

As a fan, you can have whatever stance you want.  Hart has to look out for the good of the department.  Dooley's contract is so disadvantageous to us that in spite of the really crappy 3-year run we are on, I think it's still possible (maybe not likely, but possible) that Hart retains him.

So yeah, let's go ahead and give another guy TEN YEARS (unprecedented - also almost certainly BS, but I digress) and a huge buyout so we can get stuck with his dum ass also if he doesn't work out (whether it's Gruden or someone else).

This is key to me...you want a hot coach?  You want the guy to take us to the next level (or several levels, lol)?  And you want to pay him as much as it takes, right?

Well if he's all that, then let him man up and accept some risk.  No big buyout, and 5 years, maybe 4, at the most. 

That's just good business.

I realize that you are speaking as a fan, but to me it's just COMMON sense, let alone business sense.

As in all negotiations and business decisions, there is an offer which will be accepted and a lesser offer which gets rejected. Of course it makes business sense to give shorter contracts if possible when hiring new coaches, but what if contracts with shorter durations will never be accepted by the coach you are trying to hire? Then you either settle for another coach or you offer the longer contract. And that comes down to how badly you want the coach.

It is NOT a no-brainer that you should never offer long deals. It's very risky but for the right coach it might be what you have to do.

[Volznut]

Bandit it all depends. Does UT believe Gruden is the answer? If so, the money and time is small potatoes compared to the revenue they will generate if he gets it done.

Otherwise, why bother? You knew he would demand a lot

[generic name here]

I don't even know you bandit, but I feel like I want to punch you.

[ReVOLver]

LOL.  So you're happy that Dooley has a $ 5 million buyout?

As a fan, you can have whatever stance you want.  Hart has to look out for the good of the department.  Dooley's contract is so disadvantageous to us that in spite of the really crappy 3-year run we are on, I think it's still possible (maybe not likely, but possible) that Hart retains him.

So yeah, let's go ahead and give another guy TEN YEARS (unprecedented - also almost certainly BS, but I digress) and a huge buyout so we can get stuck with his dum ass also if he doesn't work out (whether it's Gruden or someone else).

This is key to me...you want a hot coach?  You want the guy to take us to the next level (or several levels, lol)?  And you want to pay him as much as it takes, right?

Well if he's all that, then let him man up and accept some risk.  No big buyout, and 5 years, maybe 4, at the most. 

That's just good business.

I realize that you are speaking as a fan, but to me it's just COMMON sense, let alone business sense.

I'm not even going to read all of that, to be honest. To the first line, I don't care about Dooley's buyout... I am pissed that they fizzleed it up and hired the wrong guy. It is not my money. I do not care about the money. I want a winning football team. If they win, they money will not matter. If they don't win, they aren't getting my money.

[TheRealOrange]

I don't even know you bandit, but I feel like I want to punch you.

Not a very civil post.  Bandit is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else.  In fact, I believe that 10 years is far too long for a coaching contract unless it comes with a very small (or no) buyout.  Then again, I am not a Gruden fan, so....  In any event, let's keep the discourse civil please. 

[UTnbama]

Aobut the 10 years. There is absolutely no reason performance goals and thresholds couldn't be added to mitigate paying the full amount if the performace wasn't there. Should really not be a problem if structured properly.

[generic name here]

Not a very civil post.  Bandit is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else.  In fact, I believe that 10 years is far too long for a coaching contract unless it comes with a very small (or no) buyout.  Then again, I am not a Gruden fan, so....  In any event, let's keep the discourse civil please. 

Ahh, I'm not trying to uncivil. You don't me well so you can't tell I'm being light-hearted about it but be assured that I am.

[TheRealOrange]

Aobut the 10 years. There is absolutely no reason performance goals and thresholds couldn't be added to mitigate paying the full amount if the performace wasn't there. Should really not be a problem if structured properly.

Well, that is the key (bolded orange text in quote).  The thought of another failed coach getting paid big bucks to get out of town isn't very appealling.    Such things won't matter if the next coach is successful, and they would not have mattered if previous coaches were successful.  That's why structuring for potential failure is important, IMO.  Some risk has to be taken by the coach.  I despise one-sided contracts.

[ReVOLver]

Not a very civil post.  Bandit is as entitled to his opinion as anyone else.  In fact, I believe that 10 years is far too long for a coaching contract unless it comes with a very small (or no) buyout.  Then again, I am not a Gruden fan, so....  In any event, let's keep the discourse civil please. 

I just think fans shouldn't care about or concern themselves with those details. The complaints all come back to wins and losses. The length of the contract or the buyout is never an issue when the coach is performing well.

[TheRealOrange]

Ahh, I'm not trying to uncivil. You don't me well so you can't tell I'm being light-hearted about it but be assured that I am.

I thought that might be the case, but I just don't want things to get out of control.  As far as knowing you, I have been at the VTTW since 1998, so....    And, if I don't know you, Bandit also may not, and I wanted to avoid a back-and-forth exchange.  I actually try to step lightly with my moderator shoes in these situations.   

[VoLynteer]

I don't even know you bandit, but I feel like I want to punch you.

Come sit next to me.  We can be "Punch and Slappy" 

[TheRealOrange]

I just think fans shouldn't care about or concern themselves with those details. The complaints all come back to wins and losses. The length of the contract or the buyout is never an issue when the coach is performing well.

I actually think graduates and donors should be concerned about those things.  Of course they don't matter when a coach is successful.  But, administrators should be negotiating and entering into contracts with all possibilities (or an many as can be foreseen) in mind.  The length of the contract and terms of a buyout are there to deal with potential failure, which we know all too well is a real possibility and easily foreseen.   

[JeffCountyVolFan]

I agree with Bandit.  I, like all of you, want UT to win.  Having said that, from a financial standpoint (which is what Hart and the university must consider) it doesn't make good sense to engage in a long-term contract with a huge buyout.  If the coach was a guarantee, the scenario is different - but there are not guarantees.  No coach is assured of winning here - no matter who it is.  There are factors that cannot be controlled that help determine that.

Now if the wording could be structured in the contract so that performance goals are used as contract determinants, then a longer contract and higher buyout might seem to me to make more sense.

To just go out and offer a guy a huge contract, with a huge buyout, to me makes no sense.  It is great if the guy works out, but does further harm to the athletic department if things go sour.  It could turn out to be just one more coach that we'd have to "pay me now, pay me later".

[PirateVOL]

I actually think graduates and donors should be concerned about those things.  Of course they don't matter when a coach is successful.  But, administrators should be negotiating and entering into contracts with all possibilities (or an many as can be foreseen) in mind.  The length of the contract and terms of a buyout are there to deal with potential failure, which we know all too well is a real possibility and easily foreseen.    

For a minute there I thought you were throwing us sidewalk alumni under the bus

Then I realized I was a droner, just not a large one ...  

[Creek Walker]

Of course we're all arguing over something that may not have an ounce of truth to it, but I would be opposed to a 10-year contract myself. I would rather pay him more salary and have less of a buyout in his contract. I'm okay with paying good money to get a coach to UT but I'm not willing to bankrupt the program doing it.

If the donors agree to put up a good chunk of that buyout in the event that it might be needed, I'm all for it.

[generic name here]

Come sit next to me.  We can be "Punch and Slappy" 

Sounds like an 80s cop duo. I'm down.

[PirateVOL]

Coming to a stadium near you: $100 per game tickets

[generic name here]

Coming to a stadium near you: $100 per game tickets

Paid without hesitation for a good product.

[Clockwork Orange]

Paid without hesitation for a good product.

Yed. A $100 steak sure is pricey but I'm sure as hell not buying the $60 turd sandwich.

[Volznut]

risk vs reward. That's what the decision comes down to