The losing mindset-- these are uncharted waters for Butch

[Clockwork Orange]

I guess I never gave it a lot of thought, but even though Butch inherited a depleted roster at Cincinnati he did not inherit players who were used to losing (and certainly not at CMU, where the roster was still pretty good as well). They had won under Brian Kelly and most likely had a winning mentality even if they were short on the depth chart.

So while I am still quite optimistic about Butch, it's hard to look at the initial 4-8 season he had at Cincinnati and make many assumptions about how that relates to the improvement we can expect from year 1 to year 2 at UT. He's fighting an element that I don't think he has ever had much experience with, and the horrid roster problems are just laid on top of that. I'm not pushing the panic button by any stretch, and I think we can look forward to better football overall next year, and better still after that if the staff continues to recruit so well. But I am starting to lean toward one more year than I initially thought before we're fielding a team that threatens in the East. I pointed at 2015, but it seems to me that 2016 may be the first year it's reasonable to put expectations in that range.

It has become so hard to be a UT fan, but I still think patience with Butch is going to pay off.

[Inspector Vol]

I agree. This senior class was completely messed up by dools mind games. 3 years of crap typically do not get fixed in 1 year.  Year 2 of more positive reinforcement and a demonstrated care for the person instead of what they can do on the field will help shed that attitude even more in year 2.
 "It's a mindset" I think refers to this issue without calling out and players or ex-coaches.

That said if our Juco's come in and produce right away we may go bowling next year, provided we improve on both sides of the ball. Butch and his offensive have definitely had growing pains this year which is typical for new guys in the SEC. I expect him to critique himself and the staff during the off season and adjust accordingly. They does not mean he will fire anyone, or that he should but they do need to rethink some things, this ain't the big east or the MAC.

[SmokeyJoe]

Maybe re: your timeline, but as depleted as we are, we may be surprised what a few key players can mean in the W-L column.  The entire OL was a bust IMO. JSmith, Corey Miller were basically busts, RNeal never really played like we needed. IF those and a couple others are replaced with upgrades, and we find a qb, who knows. Keep the faith.

[Clockwork Orange]

That said if our Juco's come in and produce right away we may go bowling next year, provided we improve on both sides of the ball. Butch and his offensive have definitely had growing pains this year which is typical for new guys in the SEC. I expect him to critique himself and the staff during the off season and adjust accordingly. They does not mean he will fire anyone, or that he should but they do need to rethink some things, this ain't the big east or the MAC.

True-- I don't think a bowl next year is unattainable, though it is going to be a very tough schedule again with two losable non-conference games (Utah State, Oklahoma) and a pretty tough Ole Miss team rotating onto the schedule to replace Auburn.

I don't think we see any staff changes this offseason, nor do I think we should. But there are some schematic issues that I think can and will be addressed, and the improvement in certain position groups needs to be evident next year for a couple of assistants to feel secure. I think Azzanni is a very good WRs coach and that he had very little to work with this year, but that's a group that really needs a big offseason. TEs and Special Teams (Mark Elder) is another area that needs great improvement. Thankfully both of those coaches will see an injection of talent from the incoming class as well. Obviously QB is the other offensive position that needs to make huge strides, and that will have to be done with current personnel.

Defensively I think personnel is overwhelmingly the problem. We're just incredibly slow, and it's hard to judge the performance of any of those coaches too harshly in light of that. But if I were Butch I would be looking for improvement at every level of the defense, even if AJ leaves.

[Volznut]

If Muschamp gets the ax, I'd take him as DC over what we have in a sec

[Creek Walker]

If Muschamp gets the ax, I'd take him as DC over what we have in a sec

For sure, but do you really envision that happening? I can't. He may very well be fired...if I were Foley, I would have fired him yesterday. But I think he'll jump right back into head coaching somewhere, maybe after taking a year or two off.

[Ridge Runner]

I think this so-called "losing mindset" is just a rationalization for the fact that we, at this point, are a bad football team. I'm sure the players are trying as hard as they can and want to win, we just don't have the horses. When we get better players, and they are coached right, then we will win, it's as simple as that. Just like those who think we're somehow "cursed" as a program. Nope. Poor decisions by the administration  on coaches, poor recruiting and attrition have brought us to where we are today. Sure we've lost some games in unbelievably heart-breaking fashion, but that's what happens to bad teams. When it comes down to it, in a close game, the team that is better is more than likely going to make those one or two plays that are going to make the difference. No magic or voodoo to it.

[Clockwork Orange]

I think this so-called "losing mindset" is just a rationalization for the fact that we, at this point, are a bad football team. I'm sure the players are trying as hard as they can and want to win, we just don't have the horses. When we get better players, and they are coached right, then we will win, it's as simple as that. Just like those who think we're somehow "cursed" as a program. Nope. Poor decisions by the administration  on coaches, poor recruiting and attrition have brought us to where we are today. Sure we've lost some games in unbelievably heart-breaking fashion, but that's what happens to bad teams. When it comes down to it, in a close game, the team that is better is more than likely going to make those one or two plays that are going to make the difference. No magic or voodoo to it.

"Curses" are ridiculous superstition. Psychology is real. I don't think it's rationalization any more than saying we have poor players is. I think it's a fact that must be dealt with or graduated away.

[Creek Walker]

I think this so-called "losing mindset" is just a rationalization for the fact that we, at this point, are a bad football team. I'm sure the players are trying as hard as they can and want to win, we just don't have the horses. When we get better players, and they are coached right, then we will win, it's as simple as that. Just like those who think we're somehow "cursed" as a program. Nope. Poor decisions by the administration  on coaches, poor recruiting and attrition have brought us to where we are today. Sure we've lost some games in unbelievably heart-breaking fashion, but that's what happens to bad teams. When it comes down to it, in a close game, the team that is better is more than likely going to make those one or two plays that are going to make the difference. No magic or voodoo to it.

Except that Vanderbilt is not a more talented team than Tennessee at this point.

[Ridge Runner]

"Curses" are ridiculous superstition. Psychology is real. I don't think it's rationalization any more than saying we have poor players is. I think it's a fact that must be dealt with or graduated away.

I won't deny psychology is important, but c'mon how many of the starters on this year's team would even make the two-deep of our teams in the Manning era through the early 2000s? And I guess more importantly, how many of them would make the two-deep on the current Alabama team?

[Clockwork Orange]

I won't deny psychology is important, but c'mon how many of the starters on this year's team would even make the two-deep of our teams in the Manning era through the early 2000s? And I guess more importantly, how many of them would make the two-deep on the current Alabama team?

I agree with that completely. I just think the psychology of the returning players adds to the challenge and is not something Butch has dealt with before.

[ChattanoogaVol]

Except that Vanderbilt is not a more talented team than Tennessee at this point.

That's what I have a huge problem handling at this point.

 

[Creek Walker]

That's what I have a huge problem handling at this point.

 

I don't like it either. Like Vinnie said the other day, it's troubling that with everything that was riding on the line these seniors couldn't rise up and get the win. But I think it's too soon to say it's an indictment against our coaches. Only time will tell.

[Tnphil]

How many of us watched Vandy over the years and knew (KNEW) they were going to do something in the last 6 minutes of a game to lose....Most of us called it Vandy just being Vandy.

That's were we are know....and it's uncanny how we've become Vandy in that aspect. Right now Vandy believes they can win and they are winning those games that just 4 years ago they would have blown.

Butch has to get our players to that point.......He Will IMO.