The chart discussion. This sound kinda familiar?

[JeffCountyVolFan]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2002-11-10/sports/0211100192_1_conversion-fsu-coach-bobby-bowden-original-chart

[JeffCountyVolFan]

[Black Diamond Vol]

Especially at that point in the game.  The only reason you kick it there is to keep them from beating or tying you with some combo of TDs and FGs.  That would've required at least 3 scores, and UF didn't have time for that.  FGs were out of play for them at that point.

I mentioned it in the game thread, but I honestly didn't think at the time that it would come back to bite us, given the way our D was playing.  After a decade of this bullshizzle, I should've known better.

[VinnieVOL]

Butch also declines more penalties than I've ever seen.    

[BanditVol]

Butch also declines more penalties than I've ever seen.    

He has this year, I don't remember him doing it in the past.  The one when they were backed up was puzzling.  They converted a first down after he declined a penalty on 2nd and 7.   

[Volznut]

We also call weird time outs. Why call time outs on their 4th down? We did it twice and they changed their minds and went for it. Got it too

[Creek Walker]

We also call weird time outs. Why call time outs on their 4th down? We did it twice and they changed their minds and went for it. Got it too

Had personnel issues both times. 12 on the field for the last one, only 10 for the first one. Dooleyesque.

[BanditVol]

We also call weird time outs. Why call time outs on their 4th down? We did it twice and they changed their minds and went for it. Got it too

On the FG punt he thought it might be a fake. On the FG attempt, I am not sure what Butch was thinking.  On that occasion, I didn't think we had too many on the field.  I thought at the time he was trying to freeze the kicker.  That's a move that's questionable at the end of the game and often debated as such.  I can't recall a situation where someone tried to freeze the kicker in the third quarter.   

But you may be right that we had too many men on the field.  If so, there is no excuse for that.

[SmokeyJoe]

And so when you are up 12, as in 26-14, you go for two? Lawd.

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[Creek Walker]

This is two losses where the chart has been mentioned. Hopefully Butch loses his chart in the same place Derek Mason lost his paper.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Why is Butch's "chart" so much different from every other football coach in America's chart? 

Just asking. 

[PirateVOL]

I would remind those bitching about not going for two that in another game with a similar situation in the swamp Fulmer got yelled at for going for two.

I do NOT think it as clear cut as some of you seem to feel it was.

[BanditVol]

I would remind those bitching about not going for two that in another game with a similar situation in the swamp Fulmer got yelled at for going for two.

I do NOT think it as clear cut as some of you seem to feel it was.

I think it was clear cut but also a relatively minor consideration.

(a) we should be able to protect a 13 point lead with ten minutes left
(b) even had we made the two pointer (and for all the critics its a 40% shot) they have the mo going into OT

[PirateVOL]

I think it was clear cut but also a relatively minor consideration.

(a) we should be able to protect a 13 point lead with ten minutes left
(b) even had we made the two pointer (and for all the critics its a 40% shot) they have the mo going into OT

The book also states don't chase the points, which is what got Fulmer yelled at when we watch the draining of the swamp in 2001

As you say, we were up two scores and the defense was playing well.

[JeffCountyVolFan]

I admit that I was one who, at the time, didn't really think about the 2 pt conversion.  I was just happy to have scored and made it a two possession game.  I actually texted a friend after we threw it on third down to get the first down earlier in the drive that Butch didn't settle for the FG.

The same friend texted me after the PAT asking why we didn't go for 2.  At that time, I thought 2 would have made sense but hoped it would not be a factor.

What really ticked me off about it, though, was when he remarked in the press conference that it is 'pretty standard' for the charts to say go for one in that situation.  Just own it - admit that the decision was questionable.  Don't try to sell me more snake oil.

[murfvol]

1) I don't have a huge problem with kicking the PAT, given the time remaining. However, projected possessions have to factor in. Following a static chart with no variable probability is frightening (not saying anyone here has endorsed that line of thinking).

2) The 3rd and 6 call, along with clock management the final minute were more concerning.

3) Rushing 3 with a spy on 4th and 13 wasn't great either.

[BanditVol]

I would remind those bitching about not going for two that in another game with a similar situation in the swamp Fulmer got yelled at for going for two.

I do NOT think it as clear cut as some of you seem to feel it was.

I think it was clear cut, but also fairly minor.  We lost by....and it sickens me to say this...giving up a 63 yard td on 4th and 14, not because we passed on the 2 point conversion

[Clockwork Orange]

Either butch lied to deflect the question or he's a fool. Nobody's chart says kick the xp there because it's the low percentage, wrong decision.

And it's the second time in two losses hes either lied to deflect questions about his poor decisions or he's revealed that he doesn't even understand that they were poor. Either way, it looks pretty bad.

[Black Diamond Vol]

Either butch lied to deflect the question or he's a fool. Nobody's chart says kick the xp there because it's the low percentage, wrong decision.

And it's the second time in two losses hes either lied to deflect questions about his poor decisions or he's revealed that he doesn't even understand that they were poor. Either way, it looks pretty bad.

Here's what I think happened.  Butch didn't expect Hurd to get the TD there.  He was clearly playing for the FG (I even mentioned it in the game thread at the time).  So when Hurd scored, Butch didn't have a 2 point play ready to go.  So he panicked and kicked the PAT.

[Tnphil]

Either butch lied to deflect the question or he's a fool. Nobody's chart says kick the xp there because it's the low percentage, wrong decision.

And it's the second time in two losses hes either lied to deflect questions about his poor decisions or he's revealed that he doesn't even understand that they were poor. Either way, it looks pretty bad.

^This.....Butch can lie and think us dumbazz fans will believe what he says...Every chart in football history tells you to go for 2 there. His ego will NEVER let him say he's wrong.

[BanditVol]

Here's what I think happened.  Butch didn't expect Hurd to get the TD there.  He was clearly playing for the FG (I even mentioned it in the game thread at the time).  So when Hurd scored, Butch didn't have a 2 point play ready to go.  So he panicked and kicked the PAT.

You're not the only one to say that.

I think in the presser Butch just assumed the chart said don't go for it, without really knowing.