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Author Topic: According to GoVolsextra  (Read 17890 times)
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Jean Voljean
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« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2012, 12:16:33 EDT »

No disrespect intended, but you asked.

I find the Bible to be like a Rohrschach test.  People see in it whatever they need to validate what they want to believe.  That doesn't mean that people are not sincere or didn't take their Bible studies seriously.  It's just a consequence of human nature.  Motivated reasoning.

This is why denominations vary so greatly in their interpretations, why ministers and their flocks can sincerely take positions that (at least to me) seem utterly unlike what Jesus would say, and why you and I don't agree on this interpration.  For which we both blame each other.

In this chapter some people ask Jesus how they should pray.  He very clearly tells them.  To me his instructions contradict prayer in Neyland stadium.

1.  It's a public spectacle, not private.
2.  Given the environment of a college football game, one has to be blind (IMHO) not to see the parallel to the criticism Jesus was making of the Pharisees.  Bear in mind that they probably felt themselves sincere as well.  Even if one gives a liberal interpretation of Jesus's instructions to not preclude public prayer, the gladiator scene hardly fits with "giving glory to God".  Neither does Tebowing for the cameras because you scored an important touchdown.

You disagree, which is not surprising.  It may well be that my interpretation of scripture is unfounded.  And it may well be that you are having the Bible conform to your desires.


JMHO.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 12:38:17 EDT by Jean Voljean » Logged
generic name here
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« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2012, 01:39:47 EDT »

No disrespect intended, but you asked.

I find the Bible to be like a Rohrschach test.  People see in it whatever they need to validate what they want to believe.  That doesn't mean that people are not sincere or didn't take their Bible studies seriously.  It's just a consequence of human nature.  Motivated reasoning.

This is why denominations vary so greatly in their interpretations, why ministers and their flocks can sincerely take positions that (at least to me) seem utterly unlike what Jesus would say, and why you and I don't agree on this interpration.  For which we both blame each other.

In this chapter some people ask Jesus how they should pray.  He very clearly tells them.  To me his instructions contradict prayer in Neyland stadium.

1.  It's a public spectacle, not private.
2.  Given the environment of a college football game, one has to be blind (IMHO) not to see the parallel to the criticism Jesus was making of the Pharisees.  Bear in mind that they probably felt themselves sincere as well.  Even if one gives a liberal interpretation of Jesus's instructions to not preclude public prayer, the gladiator scene hardly fits with "giving glory to God".  Neither does Tebowing for the cameras because you scored an important touchdown.

You disagree, which is not surprising.  It may well be that my interpretation of scripture is unfounded.  And it may well be that you are having the Bible conform to your desires.


JMHO.



I certainly would not endeavor to call you wrong on your account of what this particular scripture has to say. I am no one to offer such a judgement. I would like to take a closer look at this, however. First, it would seem to me that you are indicating a ban on public prayer as a commandment of Jesus. In reading the verses you list, it certainly sounds that way. I want to look at this again momentarily. Secondly, if such an edict is valid, it should stand to reason that public prayer by Jesus and his followers is not present in their practices. Basing the discussion on these two points, what do we find in the rest of the Gospel and New Testament that would validate or refute these points? Regarding only the idea of public prayer, if Jesus did mean that it was off limits, many of his followers throughout the New Testament did not pay heed to his commands, nor did he himself. We know that the model for church worship is laid out for us in the New Testament. Part of this format for worship involves the gathered people praying to God. Likewise, we know that Jesus offered public prayer among He and His disciples at certain times throughout the Bible, such as at The Last Supper. Also, Jesus very publicly gave us the model prayer. These types of things found throughout the New Testament indicate the possibility that Jesus did not forbid public prayer, but rather a certain kind of public prayer.From the Bible, as well as other historical accounts of the Pharisees, we know that they would often pray publicly when others were watching, and that these prayers would be quiet filled with loud, boisterous claims of the good the Pharisee had done. Indeed, their prayers were filled with histrionics. It is possible that these such public prayers are the ones Jesus intends to have abolished from practice. I do not profess to know the answer to the questions I am asking. I only look at what I see before me and am left with conclusions that seem to be counter to what you are suggesting.
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Black Diamond Vol
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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2012, 01:47:22 EDT »

Why is it that the separation of church and state crowd has issues with public prayer, but apparently has no problem with cops setting up speed traps in church parking lots?
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Quasi EVol
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« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2012, 02:25:55 EDT »

Matthew 6:5-6

Amen! 
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Clockwork Orange
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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2012, 01:49:18 EDT »

Why is it that the separation of church and state crowd has issues with public prayer, but apparently has no problem with cops setting up speed traps in church parking lots?

For my part, I have no idea what you're referring to. I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that if a police officer wants to set up a speed trap on private property they would need the permission of the owner, whether that was a private business, an individual, or a church. Are churches treated differently than businesses and individuals in this regard?
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"Stay patient and be strong, 'cause it's gonna hit. And when it hits, it's gonna hit hard."

Black Diamond Vol
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« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2012, 09:04:40 EDT »

For my part, I have no idea what you're referring to. I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that if a police officer wants to set up a speed trap on private property they would need the permission of the owner, whether that was a private business, an individual, or a church. Are churches treated differently than businesses and individuals in this regard?

It was a joke.  In fact, just forget I posted it.  I've already broken my cardinal rule not to post on this board (thanks to the link from the main board), so I don't even want to get involved here.
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Clockwork Orange
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« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2012, 09:16:32 EDT »

It was a joke.  In fact, just forget I posted it.  I've already broken my cardinal rule not to post on this board (thanks to the link from the main board), so I don't even want to get involved here.

Ah. Sorry 'bout that. That's a pretty good cardinal rule, BTW.
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"Stay patient and be strong, 'cause it's gonna hit. And when it hits, it's gonna hit hard."

DuckVol
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« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2012, 11:05:33 EDT »

When I read the first post in the string, which was completely innocent, I was sure this was going to deteriorate into some awful left/right debate over religion, instead, I got to read a reasoned debate.

I just wanted to say to all who have posted here on this subject, thank you.  Every one of you posted a reasoned, rational response (perhaps the humorous ones notwithstanding), didn't get heated, were tolerant of others viewpoints that were different from your own, and in short, made very good points.

I don't think I know any of you, but you all are to be congratulated for this because unfortunately it is not a very common occurrence these days, especially on the net, as I am sure those of you with facebook accounts can attest to with respect to the upcoming elections.

Here's to a return of rational discussion of sensitive points in this country.

Good job!
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