Looks like the NCAA won't wait

[BigOrange Maniac]

Hate it for the PSU fans but this should be dealt with harshly. http://t.co/74mQgtzy

[Black Diamond Vol]

Alright, let's talk about what's really important: Does PSU have any players (especially LBs) that we would want?

Seriously, I still think it's setting a very bad precedent that the NCAA is the one imposing sanctions in this case.   

[BigOrange Maniac]

It's an unfortunate precedent, for sure, but the NCAA is the only entity that can sanction the program other than the university itself or the state of Pennsylvania, neither of which is likely to happen.

[SmokeyJoe]

I don't have a dog in the fight. I can see where this is solely a criminal/civil matter, but isn't also a case study in lack of institutional control? IMO it is.

[Volznut]

Alright, let's talk about what's really important: Does PSU have any players (especially LBs) that we would want?

Seriously, I still think it's setting a very bad precedent that the NCAA is the one imposing sanctions in this case.   

Yes. All of the following would be good, but I think we'd only have two schollies to count back to 2011, with Lanier gone. I think we should be all over their kicker and TB.

1.  TB Silas Redd, 1200+ yards rushing last year

2.  DT Jordan Hill, 6'1 298 Senior

3.  LB Gerald Hodges , 6'2 233 Senior

4.  LB Michael Mauti Sr

5.  LB Glenn Carson, Jr

6.  WR Justin Brown -- 6'3 209 Senior

7.  LB Khairi Fortt, Jr

8. PK Anthony Fera -- Sr, on the LOu Groza award watch.

[edog5573]

That list of LB's looks good to- Its a damn shame were having to look at these guys.

[BanditVol]

Alright, let's talk about what's really important: Does PSU have any players (especially LBs) that we would want?

Seriously, I still think it's setting a very bad precedent that the NCAA is the one imposing sanctions in this case.   

I don't.  I see your point, but at the same time, it's as if you trying to get a child molestor off on a technicality.  Oh.  The police didn't have a search warrant.

Somethings exceed football, and if so, they CERTAINLY exceed the GD NCAA rules, which are a joke anyway.
I say HAMMER THEM.

[BanditVol]

I don't.  I see your point, but at the same time, it's as if you trying to get a child molestor off on a technicality.  Oh.  The police didn't have a search warrant.

Some things exceed football, and if so, they CERTAINLY exceed the GD NCAA rules, which are a joke anyway.

I say HAMMER THEM.

[Black Diamond Vol]

There absolutely was a lack of institutional control.  And Penn State should absolutely be punished for it- severely.  But that punishment should be administered by the courts or other law enforcement agencies, not the NCAA. 

The NCAA has basically two functions- to administer championships and compliance.  IMO, this falls under neither category.  Sure, one could make the case that PSU gained an unfair competitive advantage by concealing the truth and saving themselves 14 years of embarrassment.  But that slope is covered with a million K-Y coated banana peels.

This is a legal issue, not a compliance issue.  But by inserting themselves in this situation, the NCAA has now opened a huge can of worms.  The next time one of our players gets mad at the attendant at the Rocky Top Market at 3AM and starts tossing chicken wings at him, are we going to have to worry about the NCAA sanctioning our program?  Because that's what they've now given themselves license to do. 

And I won't even delve into how this can poison the potential jurors for all the civil cases that are on the horizon.  Think PSU's defense team isn't licking its chops at that prospect?

[Black Diamond Vol]

Furthermore, the NCAA didn't even conduct an investigation here.  They're just citing the Freeh Report as "actionable evidence" and handing down sanctions based on its findings. 

Now I don't want to disparage the Freeh Report, because it certainly seems credible.  But if the NCAA doesn't even have to conduct an investigation, then what else can they act on?  An article in the New York Times?  A report by Tom Farrey on Outside the Lines?  A hit piece on Outkick The Coverage?  Maybe the next time Danny Sheridan goes on Finebaum's show and accuses a school of buying a player, the NCAA can just spring into action?   

[Clockwork Orange]

Furthermore, the NCAA didn't even conduct an investigation here.  They're just citing the Freeh Report as "actionable evidence" and handing down sanctions based on its findings. 

Now I don't want to disparage the Freeh Report, because it certainly seems credible.  But if the NCAA doesn't even have to conduct an investigation, then what else can they act on?  An article in the New York Times?  A report by Tom Farrey on Outside the Lines?  A hit piece on Outkick The Coverage?  Maybe the next time Danny Sheridan goes on Finebaum's show and accuses a school of buying a player, the NCAA can just spring into action?   

I think you're overreacting. This PSU situation has no precedent, and IMO it sets no precedent. The NCAA is not acting on rulebreaking from a competitive standpoint, which is the vast majority of the NCAA's responsibility. They are responding to the most egregious lack of institutional control college athletics has ever seen-- and hopefully will never see again. This, IMO, is a one-shot deal for the NCAA barring another incident of this magnitude. I don't think this marks any kind of change in the NCAA's approach to enforcement.

[BanditVol]

IF a player throws chicken wings at someone in the quickie mart, AND our HC helps cover it up to avoid embarrasment to the program, THEN the NCAA should act.

And beyond that...one thing that came out of this is that in 2004, JoePa was told to leave by the University President and Athletic Director and he just said, "no, nuh-uh, not gonna do it".

http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=279154

And then there are the reports by a former compliance officer at PSU that Paterno overode her and ultimately caused her to resign.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-07-06/joe-paterno-email-penn-state-jerry-sandusky-discipline-fight-arrests

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/09/justice/pennsylvania-penn-state-paterno/index.html

It's certainly not the fact that child abuse took place.  Joe  didn't commit it, and his level of involvement in covering it up is not completely known - though he did play some role - but what emerges is a picture of a coach that was above the university administration and apparently did interfere with potential discipline of players and yes, that is certainly something the NCAA can and should penalize.

[Black Diamond Vol]

IF a player throws chicken wings at someone in the quickie mart, AND our HC helps cover it up to avoid embarrasment to the program, THEN the NCAA should act.

So what qualifies as a coverup?  When a player fails a drug test and is suspended (or not) for the ubiquitous "violation of team rules"?  That's a coverup that happens every day at every school in America- and it's done for no reason other than to save the player and the program some measure of embarrassment.  So the NCAA should act in that case?  Again, it's a slippery slope.

As for the links you provided, none of that paints a pretty picture of what's been going on at PSU for the past couple decades.  But none of it falls under the compliance umbrella, either- especially since the NCAA never investigated those instances.  But maybe those articles would now qualify as "actionable evidence".  I don't know.

Mark Emmert has basically declared himself judge, jury, and executioner.  Maybe he can handle that role responsibly (though I have my doubts).  But what if he's succeeded by someone like Jim Delaney?  Would you feel comfortable with him in that position?

What I think we're seeing here is the beginning of the end of the NCAA as the governing body for major college sports.  I think that was always going to happen at some point, but this will only hasten the process.

[BigOrange Maniac]

So what qualifies as a coverup?  When a player fails a drug test and is suspended (or not) for the ubiquitous "violation of team rules"?  That's a coverup that happens every day at every school in America- and it's done for no reason other than to save the player and the program some measure of embarrassment.  So the NCAA should act in that case?  Again, it's a slippery slope.

As for the links you provided, none of that paints a pretty picture of what's been going on at PSU for the past couple decades.  But none of it falls under the compliance umbrella, either- especially since the NCAA never investigated those instances.  But maybe those articles would now qualify as "actionable evidence".  I don't know.

Mark Emmert has basically declared himself judge, jury, and executioner.  Maybe he can handle that role responsibly (though I have my doubts).  But what if he's succeeded by someone like Jim Delaney?  Would you feel comfortable with him in that position?

What I think we're seeing here is the beginning of the end of the NCAA as the governing body for major college sports.  I think that was always going to happen at some point, but this will only hasten the process.

I have to agree with Bandit on this one. Many times someone who is obviously a criminal gets off scott-free on some sort of technicality and we always shrug and say that all was done that could be done; at least the process was protected. I say screw the process. This is an unprecedented situation and it deserves an unprecedented response. Do I like what it could mean in the future? No, but I also know that the NCAA has only as much power as its member institutions are willing to grant it. Somehow I doubt we'll see something like this repeated for the petty, every-day rules violations that schools are guilty of. In the meantime, allowing PSU's football program to escape unscathed would be a monumental tragedy, and the NCAA is the only entity with the authority to do something about that.

The most troubling part is that Emmert essentially accepted the Freeh report in place of a typical NCAA investigation and bypassed the typical due process. That opens the NCAA up to a heap of criticism that could've otherwise been avoided. I can only assume that Emmert wanted to get something in place by the start of this football season, but it seems to me that it would've been much more appropriate to conduct an investigation, march PSU before the COI, and then hand down sanctions. Perhaps Emmert isn't doing that because there is no infraction, by the letter of the law. But as others have said, I don't see how this whole thing isn't a case study in LOIC.

[Black Diamond Vol]

I have to agree with Bandit on this one. Many times someone who is obviously a criminal gets off scott-free on some sort of technicality and we always shrug and say that all was done that could be done; at least the process was protected. I say screw the process. This is an unprecedented situation and it deserves an unprecedented response. Do I like what it could mean in the future? No, but I also know that the NCAA has only as much power as its member institutions are willing to grant it. Somehow I doubt we'll see something like this repeated for the petty, every-day rules violations that schools are guilty of. In the meantime, allowing PSU's football program to escape unscathed would be a monumental tragedy, and the NCAA is the only entity with the authority to do something about that.

The most troubling part is that Emmert essentially accepted the Freeh report in place of a typical NCAA investigation and bypassed the typical due process. That opens the NCAA up to a heap of criticism that could've otherwise been avoided. I can only assume that Emmert wanted to get something in place by the start of this football season, but it seems to me that it would've been much more appropriate to conduct an investigation, march PSU before the COI, and then hand down sanctions. Perhaps Emmert isn't doing that because there is no infraction, by the letter of the law. But as others have said, I don't see how this whole thing isn't a case study in LOIC.

I think the error here is assuming that PSU's football program wouldn't be punished once this has run its course through the courts.  There are dozens of civil suits to come, and PSU stands to lose all or most of them (or at least they did, before Emmert jumped the gun).  By the time this is over, PSU may not have been able to afford a football program.  But that would take some time, and that would not satisfy a vocal bloodthirsty contingent who wants their pound of flesh yesterday, if not sooner.

[BigOrange Maniac]

I think the error here is assuming that PSU's football program wouldn't be punished once this has run its course through the courts.  There are dozens of civil suits to come, and PSU stands to lose all or most of them (or at least they did, before Emmert jumped the gun).  By the time this is over, PSU may not have been able to afford a football program.  But that would take some time, and that would not satisfy a vocal bloodthirsty contingent who wants their pound of flesh yesterday, if not sooner.

I don't think the NCAA's actions will have any impact on the outcome of the civil suits. Regardless, PSU's football program is the 2nd-richest in America, according to some reports I saw, which means it's also one of the most profitable. If PSU were losing civil suits that exceeded its liability insurance, the cash cow that is its football program would become an even bigger necessity than it is now.