After sleeping on it

[ReVOLver]

I am more skeptical of the Gruden thing. I'm not saying that the rumors are untrue per the information that is out there, but I wonder about the accuracy of the source where it all stems from. I'm not saying that OV75 and others aren't telling what they've legitimately heard, but this morning it all feels like misinformation to me.

So, again, I will believe it when I see it.

However I firmly believe that Dooley is done and already knows because otherwise someone would move to squash all this stuff.

[WoodstockVol]

I've read things saying David Cutcliffe is a major Candidate for the job. Duke is 6-2 and Cut is on a roll

[ReVOLver]

I've read things saying David Cutcliffe is a major Candidate for the job. Duke is 6-2 and Cut is on a roll

I'm not sure where you've read it, but people always say that just because he coached at UT before. It's lazy journalism to list him as a candidate. If Hart wants a collective "meh" from the fans, he should hire Cut. The only reason he was in the mix last time was because Hamilton was in panic mode.

[Clockwork Orange]

I am more skeptical of the Gruden thing. I'm not saying that the rumors are untrue per the information that is out there, but I wonder about the accuracy of the source where it all stems from. I'm not saying that OV75 and others aren't telling what they've legitimately heard, but this morning it all feels like misinformation to me.

So, again, I will believe it when I see it.

However I firmly believe that Dooley is done and already knows because otherwise someone would move to squash all this stuff.

Agreed on all counts.

Here's what I find ironic about the money portion of this, which is what a lot of fans will see as a stumbling block. UT has invested a LOT of money into capital improvements in the last 18-36 months . . . not just the big new football facility and Neyland renovations but in the construction and renovation of buildings and spaces all across campus (hence the "cone zone" and the associated frustration). That's going to continue for at least the next two years. Add all of that to the financial woes of the athletic department that have been made public and it appears on the surface that all of this spending is going to make it tough for UT to justify a $6M coach.

On the other hand, this is precisely the time when applying a defibrillator with some serious voltage might have the maximum possible impact. UT is working on a massive upgrade to facilities and infrastructure, is investing more into highly competitive faculty for the research and academic missions, and is trying to kick-start itself into a lunge toward the top 25 public schools. What better time to go all-in and revamp the face of your athletics as well? It seems to me that those missions can feed off of each other's success to accelerate the climb to the top.

I'm not Gruden-or-bust by any stretch, and I have serious doubts about how close any of this is to happening. But I think it's the right hire at the right time if you can make it.

[ReVOLver]

Agreed on all counts.

Here's what I find ironic about the money portion of this, which is what a lot of fans will see as a stumbling block. UT has invested a LOT of money into capital improvements in the last 18-36 months . . . not just the big new football facility and Neyland renovations but in the construction and renovation of buildings and spaces all across campus (hence the "cone zone" and the associated frustration). That's going to continue for at least the next two years. Add all of that to the financial woes of the athletic department that have been made public and it appears on the surface that all of this spending is going to make it tough for UT to justify a $6M coach.

On the other hand, this is precisely the time when applying a defibrillator with some serious voltage might have the maximum possible impact. UT is working on a massive upgrade to facilities and infrastructure, is investing more into highly competitive faculty for the research and academic missions, and is trying to kick-start itself into a lunge toward the top 25 public schools. What better time to go all-in and revamp the face of your athletics as well? It seems to me that those missions can feed off of each other's success to accelerate the climb to the top.

I'm not Gruden-or-bust by any stretch, and I have serious doubts about how close any of this is to happening. But I think it's the right hire at the right time if you can make it.

The money isn't an issue because boosters are going to fund it, at least up front. My best guess is that some of these boosters have looked at the last four years and wondered how they ended up with Dooley and realized that to get someone to come to Tennessee considering the perception, they are going to have to overpay.

[tnflower]

The money isn't an issue because boosters are going to fund it, at least up front. My best guess is that some of these boosters have looked at the last four years and wondered how they ended up with Dooley and realized that to get someone to come to Tennessee considering the perception, they are going to have to overpay.

You are right. I remember how stunned I was to hear about the salary Bama paid Sabin. I liked the expression that was used by someone here on "bargin-bin coaches". You get what you pay for.

[Clockwork Orange]

The money isn't an issue because boosters are going to fund it, at least up front. My best guess is that some of these boosters have looked at the last four years and wondered how they ended up with Dooley and realized that to get someone to come to Tennessee considering the perception, they are going to have to overpay.

I'm not talking about who's funding it; much of the capital expenditure is privately funded too. I'm talking about public perception of the spending against the general economic backdrop right now.

[Volznut]

I've read things saying David Cutcliffe is a major Candidate for the job. Duke is 6-2 and Cut is on a roll

Won't happen

[BanditVol]

If Hart wants a collective "meh" from the fans, he should hire Cut. The only reason he was in the mix last time was because Hamilton was in panic mode.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/326140-breaking-david-cutcliffe-meeting-with-tennessee-ad-about-coaching-job

It's too bad, because Cut would have been a much better "interim, build it back up" coach than Dooley.  There is almost no question about that.  I had forgotten Cut took himself out of the running in 2008.  Class guy.

IIRC, a lot of people didn't want Cut even in 2010.  But compared to Dooley?   Water under the bridge....but it goes to what I have been saying. I don't care if my AD pisses off a few fans who don't get exactly what they want.  Just do the right thing for the program.  Leaders are not led by the masses, it's the other way around.

[murfvol]

My issue with Cut (who I like Sun-Fri, but not as a playcaller) is recruiting. It's my impression he prefers Xs and Os to that end of the game. That's fine, but we have to have a head coach who is not only good at evaluation, but at bringing guys in.

[ReVOLver]

I'm not talking about who's funding it; much of the capital expenditure is privately funded too. I'm talking about public perception of the spending against the general economic backdrop right now.

I hear you, but to that I say... who cares? If rich people want to spend their money and if the program wins, everybody who whines about it will either STFU or be muted. A winning football program is very good for the health of UT.

[Clockwork Orange]

I hear you, but to that I say... who cares? If rich people want to spend their money and if the program wins, everybody who whines about it will either STFU or be muted. A winning football program is very good for the health of UT.

Up front, people do care, and UT cares that they care. I can guarantee you that this is an element of the discussion on how to proceed with UT's coaching situation, even if it's a minor part . . . UT doesn't want to appear to be reckless with people's money-- donors or taxpayers-- in a time when people are especially sensitive to that. And my argument is that when you look at the whole picture, this is the right time to take that chance because of the potential for a more-than-arithmetic payoff on that investment.

We're not disagreeing here . . . I just think this is going to be something that is discussed if UT shells out big money, and there may be some associated heat that UT/Hart receive. My contention is that it's actually the perfect time to take on that risk.

[Creek Walker]

Don't forget that the same flack was there when it was publicly perceived that Kiffin's coaching staff was overpaid . . . and that would be peanuts compared to giving some dude an 8-year/$50m contract.

[ReVOLver]

Up front, people do care, and UT cares that they care. I can guarantee you that this is an element of the discussion on how to proceed with UT's coaching situation, even if it's a minor part . . . UT doesn't want to appear to be reckless with people's money-- donors or taxpayers-- in a time when people are especially sensitive to that. And my argument is that when you look at the whole picture, this is the right time to take that chance because of the potential for a more-than-arithmetic payoff on that investment.

We're not disagreeing here . . . I just think this is going to be something that is discussed if UT shells out big money, and there may be some associated heat that UT/Hart receive. My contention is that it's actually the perfect time to take on that risk.

Oh, we agree. I am probably just showing my "corporate" colors... my gut feeling is always to say, we are doing this for the good of the "company", and there will always be somebody that doesn't like it, so screw them. You are being a little more cognizant of what those people will say on the front end.

[BanditVol]

Don't forget that the same flack was there when it was publicly perceived that Kiffin's coaching staff was overpaid . . . and that would be peanuts compared to giving some dude an 8-year/$50m contract.

Gruden is acceptable to me, but then again, so is Cut, but neither is near the top of my list.  I think I would prefer Strong, but I really don't have strong feelings on a new coach.  I just want one that wins.

But 8 years/$6 million for a guy who has never even been an HC in college.  Man, I hope the mighty Tennessee Vols are not that desperate and needy.  We can do better than that.

By which I mean, if the rumors are true about Gruden I can handle him as coach, but not for that amount.  $4 million a year, fine, that seems to be the going rate. 

We don't need to be setting any records with this guy.

Obviously some of you think it's worth it and don't worry about the amount,but it matters to me.

[Volznut]

Don't forget that the same flack was there when it was publicly perceived that Kiffin's coaching staff was overpaid . . . and that would be peanuts compared to giving some dude an 8-year/$50m contract.

I don't mind it. He will get paid what UT is willing to pay. If he is successful, the ROI will be ten-fold, as people return to the stadium and buy more stuff.

[Creek Walker]

Gruden is acceptable to me, but then again, so is Cut, but neither is near the top of my list.  I think I would prefer Strong, but I really don't have strong feelings on a new coach.  I just want one that wins.

But 8 years/$6 million for a guy who has never even been an HC in college.  Man, I hope the mighty Tennessee Vols are not that desperate and needy.  We can do better than that.

By which I mean, if the rumors are true about Gruden I can handle him as coach, but not for that amount.  $4 million a year, fine, that seems to be the going rate. 

We don't need to be setting any records with this guy.

Obviously some of you think it's worth it and don't worry about the amount,but it matters to me.

Perception being what it is, I think if UT is only willing to pay $4m/yr. it's going to be another roll of the dice...which is all well and good if it works out. But UT can absolutely not afford to have another project coach flop. The longer your program is down the harder it is to pull it out of the abyss and the greater the chances (although still pretty small) that it never happens. I think the people whose opinions matter at UT realize this and that's why I agree with Revolver and others that money isn't going to be an issue.

[ReVOLver]

Gruden is acceptable to me, but then again, so is Cut, but neither is near the top of my list.  I think I would prefer Strong, but I really don't have strong feelings on a new coach.  I just want one that wins.

But 8 years/$6 million for a guy who has never even been an HC in college.  Man, I hope the mighty Tennessee Vols are not that desperate and needy.  We can do better than that.

By which I mean, if the rumors are true about Gruden I can handle him as coach, but not for that amount.  $4 million a year, fine, that seems to be the going rate. 

We don't need to be setting any records with this guy.

Obviously some of you think it's worth it and don't worry about the amount,but it matters to me.

I don't think anybody is saying that it's worth it... my feeling is, I want to win, and I don't care how much they pay if they get the right guy. I don't understand people getting caught up in the money up front. I can see being upset about it if the coach doesn't pan out. But either you trust the AD to hire the right guy and know the market that it takes to get that guy or not.

[BanditVol]

Perception being what it is, I think if UT is only willing to pay $4m/yr. it's going to be another roll of the dice...which is all well and good if it works out. But UT can absolutely not afford to have another project coach flop. The longer your program is down the harder it is to pull it out of the abyss and the greater the chances (although still pretty small) that it never happens. I think the people whose opinions matter at UT realize this and that's why I agree with Revolver and others that money isn't going to be an issue.

"Only" $ 4 million?  Saban makes $5 million.  $4 million is not bargain basement by any means.

But I don't want to quibble about the exact amount.  I just don't want to set a record for Gruden.  I can't see how it would possibly be worth it.  Surely to God, we are not that needy.

[Creek Walker]

I don't mind it. He will get paid what UT is willing to pay. If he is successful, the ROI will be ten-fold, as people return to the stadium and buy more stuff.

It gives me a headache to think about the possibilities if it doesn't pan out in the long run, but I don't really mind it, either. I think our former A.D., the (ahem) most-successful-fundraiser-in-the-history-of-major-college-athletics-who-left-us-broke, necessitated this scenario.

[Creek Walker]

"Only" $ 4 million?  Saban makes $5 million.  $4 million is not bargain basement by any means.

But I don't want to quibble about the exact amount.  I just don't want to set a record for Gruden.  I can't see how it would possibly be worth it.  Surely to God, we are not that needy.

Saban's latest contract is 8 yrs/$45 million.

Name the guys with proven head coaching experience who would be close to a sure bet to succeed at Tennessee. Then name how many of them would come to Tennessee for $4 million. $4 million isn't bargain basement but it's also not top shelf. All in means all in. Bring in Kirby Smart for $3m/yr. or Todd Berry for $3.5m/yr. and you're taking a significant risk of repeating what has already been tried.

[BanditVol]

Saban's latest contract is 8 yrs/$45 million.

Name the guys with proven head coaching experience who would be close to a sure bet to succeed at Tennessee. Then name how many of them would come to Tennessee for $4 million. $4 million isn't bargain basement but it's also not top shelf. All in means all in. Bring in Kirby Smart for $3m/yr. or Todd Berry for $3.5m/yr. and you're taking a significant risk of repeating what has already been tried.

Like I said...not quibbling about the exact amount, so you can drop the references to $4 million.

We don't need to pay someone more than Saban just to do it. 

But I guess we could....

Dooley makes $2 million a year. 

Based on what you just posted, Saban makes $5.6 million

I think $6.2 million is too much, and an 8-year contract as well.  An eight year contract for someone who has won two MNCs in 3 years is one thing, an 8-year contract for someone who hasn't coached in awhile is another.

But  it's entirely possible the numbers floated are bogus anyway.  I personally hope so.

[Creek Walker]

An eight year contract for someone who has won two MNCs in 3 years is one thing

But don't forget, Saban is washed up and will never win another NC at Alabama. 

[VinnieVOL]

But don't forget, Saban is washed up and will never win another NC at Alabama. 

LOL!   

[VinnieVOL]

I don't care what we have to pay a guy.  Just get it right and fix it.