Are the High Schools starting regional or district play now? How many weeks are

[volsboy]

left?

[volsboy]

I see the finals are on Dec 5th. So there's quite a few weeks to go. Hope all the kids stay healthy.

[Memphisvolunteer]

State Tournaments start this week.  Last week was the last regular season games.

[HerbTarlekVol]

The playoffs begin this week.  Here is a link to the brackets:

http://tssaa.org/road-to-the-bluecross-bowl-2014/

[Black Diamond Vol]

The playoffs begin this week.  Here is a link to the brackets:

http://tssaa.org/road-to-the-bluecross-bowl-2014/

My Owls got screwed.  10-0 and a 3 seed?  WTF?

[Creek Walker]

My Owls got screwed.  10-0 and a 3 seed?  WTF?

But Oak Ridge and Rhea County were 10-0 also. Someone HAD to be screwed. Ooltewah needs to play a more difficult schedule next year.  Actually after this year SOS will no longer matter since TSSAA is going back to the old formula.

There ARE plenty of examples of how this system does screw teams, which is why so many coaches were opposed to it. Take Class 2A, for example. Rockwood is 7-3, beat the No. 4 and No. 5 2A teams as ranked by the AP, is ranked No. 7 in the state according to TSSAA's playoff formula, and yet is a 5-seed, playing on the road in the first round against 5-5 Boyd Buchanan, simply because Boyd won their extremely weak district and wound up being shifted from their natural quad to Rockwood's quad because there weren't enough qualifying teams in the first quad. That's messed up.

[Black Diamond Vol]

But Oak Ridge and Rhea County were 10-0 also. Someone HAD to be screwed. Ooltewah needs to play a more difficult schedule next year.  Actually after this year SOS will no longer matter since TSSAA is going back to the old formula.

There ARE plenty of examples of how this system does screw teams, which is why so many coaches were opposed to it. Take Class 2A, for example. Rockwood is 7-3, beat the No. 4 and No. 5 2A teams as ranked by the AP, is ranked No. 7 in the state according to TSSAA's playoff formula, and yet is a 5-seed, playing on the road in the first round against 5-5 Boyd Buchanan, simply because Boyd won their extremely weak district and wound up being shifted from their natural quad to Rockwood's quad because there weren't enough qualifying teams in the first quad. That's messed up.

It's 5A in East Tennessee- NOBODY'S played that tough of a schedule.  OHS's district is a joke, no doubt- but they did beat a couple 6A teams on the road, including Dobyns Bennet.  All I know is that we've been in the same district as OR and RC recently, and regularly spanked them both.  Oh well- nobody on this side of the state is winning the 5A title anyway. 

[Creek Walker]

It's 5A in East Tennessee- NOBODY'S played that tough of a schedule.  OHS's district is a joke, no doubt- but they did beat a couple 6A teams on the road, including Dobyns Bennet.  All I know is that we've been in the same district as OR and RC recently, and regularly spanked them both.  Oh well- nobody on this side of the state is winning the 5A title anyway. 

The playoff formula looks first at overall wins, then at the number of teams on the schedule with .500 or better records, then the number of wins over teams with .500 or better records, then total wins by opponents, etc.

I'll miss crunching the numbers late in the season, but I look forward to getting back to the simple 4-vs-1, 2-vs-3 regional playoff format where everything is set in stone.

[HerbTarlekVol]

But Oak Ridge and Rhea County were 10-0 also. Someone HAD to be screwed. Ooltewah needs to play a more difficult schedule next year.  Actually after this year SOS will no longer matter since TSSAA is going back to the old formula.

There ARE plenty of examples of how this system does screw teams, which is why so many coaches were opposed to it. Take Class 2A, for example. Rockwood is 7-3, beat the No. 4 and No. 5 2A teams as ranked by the AP, is ranked No. 7 in the state according to TSSAA's playoff formula, and yet is a 5-seed, playing on the road in the first round against 5-5 Boyd Buchanan, simply because Boyd won their extremely weak district and wound up being shifted from their natural quad to Rockwood's quad because there weren't enough qualifying teams in the first quad. That's messed up.

From what I have gathered, BDV has a point.  I talked to a couple of media buddies who had some discussions with a "highly placed official" in the Hermitage bunker, and apparently Ooltewah should have been the one seed based on the criteria that has been published.  I'm told that an error was made, which is par for the course.  The Z Plan has been nothing but a discombobulated mess from the beginning.  Every year there has been an issue with it.  Thank goodness it's gone after this year.

And as tough as Quad 2 already is, if Davy Crockett High hadn't been involved in the "Musket Brawl" with Daniel Boone and banned from the playoffs, quad 2 would have also had number 1 ranked in the AP poll Knoxville West in it.  Crockett would have been in quad one, and West would have been the school furthest west and been pushed to 2.  That would have really made things even tougher in quad 2. 

[Black Diamond Vol]

From what I have gathered, BDV has a point.  I talked to a couple of media buddies who had some discussions with a "highly placed official" in the Hermitage bunker, and apparently Ooltewah should have been the one seed based on the criteria that has been published.  I'm told that an error was made, which is par for the course.  The Z Plan has been nothing but a discombobulated mess from the beginning.  Every year there has been an issue with it.  Thank goodness it's gone after this year.

And as tough as Quad 2 already is, if Davy Crockett High hadn't been involved in the "Musket Brawl" with Daniel Boone and banned from the playoffs, quad 2 would have also had number 1 ranked in the AP poll Knoxville West in it.  Crockett would have been in quad one, and West would have been the school furthest west and been pushed to 2.  That would have really made things even tougher in quad 2. 

Wow.  If that's true, wouldn't the school in question have some legal recourse?  Forget the on-field ramifications; they're probably losing 2 or 3 home playoff games, and the gate receipts that come with them.  That's a pretty big financial hit.

[Creek Walker]

As to BDV's question, if there was a screwup, it certainly wouldn't have been the first -- and the teams that have been screwed have had no choice but to grin and bear it.

TSSAA has scrubbed the numbers from their website now that the regular season is over, but I went back and re-did the math. Oak Ridge is the clear cut No. 1, but it's possible that Ooltewah should've been No. 2.

The way it works, once the teams have been divided into quads based on geography, etc., is the district champs are seeded first, then district runners-up are seeded, then the wild card teams within that quad are seeded. Oak Ridge, Rhea County and Ooltewah are all district champs, obviously, so they get the top three seeds.

Next is overall wins. Each of the three has 10 wins, so it's a stalemate.

Next is the number of games against opponents with .500 or better records. Oak Ridge had 5 (Clinton, Gibbs, Campbell County, Central, Anderson County), Rhea County had 4 (Walker Valley, Red Bank, Cookeville and Stone Memorial) and Ooltewah had 4 (Dobyns Bennett, Bradley County, Walker Valley and Cleveland).

That makes Oak Ridge the default No. 1 seed, while Rhea County and Ooltewah are still tied for second. Next is the number of wins over opponents with .500 or better records. Since both are undefeated, that number is obviously still 4 for both of them. Next after that comes total wins by opponents — and each are STILL tied at 40. Next after that comes total wins by opponents you've defeated . . . and since both are undefeated, obviously that number is still 40 for both. There's also a fewest defeats by opponents tiebreaker, and that too is tied — at 60.

That exhausts the tiebreaker and a coin flip is the last option.

I read an article on Chattanoogan.com stating that TSSAA did flip a coin at 2 a.m. Saturday morning, and Rhea County won the coin flip. So assuming TSSAA is being honest, Ooltewah is a legit three seed. If TSSAA isn't being honest, then they were screwed.

(This is a bit awkward for me because I am NOT a TSSAA defender.)

[HerbTarlekVol]

As to BDV's question, if there was a screwup, it certainly wouldn't have been the first -- and the teams that have been screwed have had no choice but to grin and bear it.

TSSAA has scrubbed the numbers from their website now that the regular season is over, but I went back and re-did the math. Oak Ridge is the clear cut No. 1, but it's possible that Ooltewah should've been No. 2.

The way it works, once the teams have been divided into quads based on geography, etc., is the district champs are seeded first, then district runners-up are seeded, then the wild card teams within that quad are seeded. Oak Ridge, Rhea County and Ooltewah are all district champs, obviously, so they get the top three seeds.

Next is overall wins. Each of the three has 10 wins, so it's a stalemate.

Next is the number of games against opponents with .500 or better records. Oak Ridge had 5 (Clinton, Gibbs, Campbell County, Central, Anderson County), Rhea County had 4 (Walker Valley, Red Bank, Cookeville and Stone Memorial) and Ooltewah had 4 (Dobyns Bennett, Bradley County, Walker Valley and Cleveland).

That makes Oak Ridge the default No. 1 seed, while Rhea County and Ooltewah are still tied for second. Next is the number of wins over opponents with .500 or better records. Since both are undefeated, that number is obviously still 4 for both of them. Next after that comes total wins by opponents — and each are STILL tied at 40. Next after that comes total wins by opponents you've defeated . . . and since both are undefeated, obviously that number is still 40 for both. There's also a fewest defeats by opponents tiebreaker, and that too is tied — at 60.

That exhausts the tiebreaker and a coin flip is the last option.

I read an article on Chattanoogan.com stating that TSSAA did flip a coin at 2 a.m. Saturday morning, and Rhea County won the coin flip. So assuming TSSAA is being honest, Ooltewah is a legit three seed. If TSSAA isn't being honest, then they were screwed.

(This is a bit awkward for me because I am NOT a TSSAA defender.)

I haven't run the numbers, so I can't opine one way or the other on that.

Both of the guys I talked to are long time media guys who have been covering high school football in the mid-state for over 20 years each, and neither has any dog in the hunt when it comes to who should have been seeded where.  They were simply passing on what they were told. 

Anytime a coin flip is a tie breaker it is a bad, bad system. 

[Creek Walker]

I can't claim that much experience, but I have been covering high school sports for nearly 15 years.   Those numbers are accurate. I agree that a coin flip is undesirable as a general rule. But Ooltewah and Rhea County were literally so close that I don't know what other option there would've been. Even under the new "old" system, coin flips will be used sometimes for region ties.

[HerbTarlekVol]

I can't claim that much experience, but I have been covering high school sports for nearly 15 years.   Those numbers are accurate. I agree that a coin flip is undesirable as a general rule. But Ooltewah and Rhea County were literally so close that I don't know what other option there would've been. Even under the new "old" system, coin flips will be used sometimes for region ties.

Not questioning your credentials at all.  I trust you did your homework.  Only passing on what I was told by guys who talked to those who were part of the process.

The fact that the numbers can be run by different people using the criteria set by the TSSAA and come out differently just again proves how flawed the Z Plan was. 

[Creek Walker]

Not questioning your credentials at all.  I trust you did your homework.  Only passing on what I was told by guys who talked to those who were part of the process.

The fact that the numbers can be run by different people using the criteria set by the TSSAA and come out differently just again proves how flawed the Z Plan was.  

I know, I know. I was just being a wiseass.  

Z-plan sucks for sure.

[BGHarper]

My Owls got screwed.  10-0 and a 3 seed?  WTF?

 

When I lived in 'nooga, I just liked to say it...Ool--to--wah! Still do everytime we pass the sign on the way to the mountains. I had a friend who lived there years ago-may still-that I worked with. He played for an amateur hockey team in 'nooga. Anyway, Ool---to---wah!

BG

[Tnphil]

If they'd had this Z Plan back when I was coaching it would have drove me to drinking more than I already did anyway.

There are teams here that are playing teams in the 1st round that they played in week 9.

[HerbTarlekVol]

There are teams here that are playing teams in the 1st round that they played in week 9.

And there are 5 games involving teams that just played in week 10 (last week) as well.

Good read from one of my buddies, Donovan Stewart:

http://www.examiner.com/article/week-11-victory-formation-1st-round-playoff-edition

[Black Diamond Vol]

 

When I lived in 'nooga, I just liked to say it...Ool--to--wah! Still do everytime we pass the sign on the way to the mountains. I had a friend who lived there years ago-may still-that I worked with. He played for an amateur hockey team in 'nooga. Anyway, Ool---to---wah!

BG

President Reagan completely butchered it when he was here in '87.  He pronounced it "oo-TEE-wuh".

[Tnphil]

And there are 5 games involving teams that just played in week 10 (last week) as well.

Good read from one of my buddies, Donovan Stewart:

http://www.examiner.com/article/week-11-victory-formation-1st-round-playoff-edition

I left that out...there are 2 here that played week 10 and are playing week 1 of the playoffs.