Try to be objective when reading and avoid the "shoot the messenger" thing.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Tony Basilio's blog has some really good info on the Sheilds-Watkins Field playing surface issue.  

And I will point out that Tony is correct - every other sport's playing surface at UT is pristine, and it is the same crew taking care of them as do the surface at Neyland.

Just some food for thought.  

http://tonybasilio.com/index.php?page=tony&b=2281

[Coupe De VOL]

Holy Schnieke's, that explains a lot....

[HerbTarlekVol]

And I need to add that not only are the baseball, softball, and soccer fields pristine, but they are used far more than the playing surface at Neyland is used.  Those venues are not only game fields, but also where those teams practice. 

In the case of softball, there are some 40 games played in the spring, and also fall games and practice there.

Ditto with baseball.  The Bat Vols host about 30 spring home dates, and they hold fall practice during the month of October and play some NCAA allowed scrimmages with small college programs in the fall. 

Yet those fields are still immaculate - among the best in the SEC. 

As T-Boz points out - it's impossible to have a field that is a quality playing surface AND one that stays green the entire year living in an area where we get 4 distinct seasons as we do in East Tennessee. 

[BanditVol]

Sounds like the HC won't listen

I personally supervised (as the customer I worked with Facilities) the construction of a soccer field on a military base down here in bammer for a soccer league I run.  It was sodded (at great expense!) with a special brand of Tifton Bermuda that is world famous but developed somewhere in Georgia (apparently Georgians are good for something occasionally  ).

The sod didn't take that well in terms of not being a firm surface the first year, and we deliberately took it easy on the field that first year.  Even in the second season, there were still a couple soft patches.

My opinion is that re-sodding Bermuda every year is insane.  When I read that in an earlier article, I shuddered.  I'm not surprised at all that the field is so shoddy.

Bermuda is a very tough grass, as anyone who owns a Bermuda lawn knows.  But it's toughness largely derives from it's ability to sink deep roots and re-root as it spreads.  It takes time for it to delve into the soil and do that.

Further, as anyone who owns Bermuda knows, starting somewhere in early October (in bammer at least) it will be brown the entire winter.

If they want it green, paint it.  That might ruin a few uniforms, but....

[HerbTarlekVol]

Sounds like the HC won't listen

And that is precisely the issue.  Butch wants the field pristine and green all year round for recruiting purposes.  And in Knoxville, Tennessee, you can have a good grass surface year round, or you can have a green grass surface year round.  But you can't have a good green grass surface year round.  Nature just won't allow it. 

Butch needs to start listening to those who have been here done that for decades.  Neyland Stadium/Shields-Watkins Field has been around a long time before him, and it will be around a long time after him.  He is trying to reinvent the wheel that up until the last several years has rolled just fine without him. 

[BanditVol]

And I need to add that not only are the baseball, softball, and soccer fields pristine, but they are used far more than the playing surface at Neyland is used.  Those venues are not only game fields, but also where those teams practice. 

In the case of softball, there are some 40 games played in the spring, and also fall games and practice there.

Ditto with baseball.  The Bat Vols host about 30 spring home dates, and they hold fall practice during the month of October and play some NCAA allowed scrimmages with small college programs in the fall. 

Yet those fields are still immaculate - among the best in the SEC. 

Are you sure those fields are used more?  And if the majority of use is in the spring, there is no issue.  Bermuda will only get stronger as the year goes on, provided it's not overused.

Also, there have been other things reported, such as that Seybold aerated in August, which most experts think is stupid, and it's also still odd that he waited so long to consult Campbell.

Sounds like there is plenty of blame to go around, but IMO the root cause is that no one appreciated just how good Campbell was.  OTOH, I thought he was there through 2013 but he left in 2010 according to one source.  Also according to that earlier blog, the problems go back four years, before Butch arrived on campus, although that blog did list 2011 as an "11-1" year for the field, whatever that means.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Are you sure those fields are used more?  And if the majority of use is in the spring, there is no issue.  Bermuda will only get stronger as the year goes on, provided it's not overused.

Also, there have been other things reported, such as that Seybold aerated in August, which most experts think is stupid, and it's also still odd that he waited so long to consult Campbell.

Sounds like there is plenty of blame to go around, but IMO the root cause is that no one appreciated just how good Campbell was.  OTOH, I thought he was there through 2013 but he left in 2010 according to one source.  Also according to that earlier blog, the problems go back four years, before Butch arrived on campus, although that blog did list 2011 as an "11-1" year for the field, whatever that means.

Yes, they are used more, Bandit.  It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to look at schedules and see how many times they are used in a season, plus as I said those are also the practice facilities for those programs.  They don't have a Haslam Facility or indoor facility to practice on/in on non-game days.

Football only uses Neyland a very few times for practice (primarily scrimmages) during fall camp and in the spring maybe only a couple other than the orange and white game. 

Again, it's not rocket surgery.  Look at the game schedules and then add practice time for baseball, softball, soccer.   

[Clockwork Orange]

I am okay with Tony B. But he is frequently full of shizzle, so I'll take this one with a grain of salt like most things he says.

[Creek Walker]

I am okay with Tony B. But he is frequently full of shizzle, so I'll take this one with a grain of salt like most things he says.

I was thinking the same. He may very well be correct, but he's concocted some stories in the past that sounded plausible and ended up being completely off-base, so...

[BanditVol]

Yes, they are used more, Bandit.  It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to look at schedules and see how many times they are used in a season, plus as I said those are also the practice facilities for those programs.  They don't have a Haslam Facility or indoor facility to practice on/in on non-game days.

Football only uses Neyland a very few times for practice (primarily scrimmages) during fall camp and in the spring maybe only a couple other than the orange and white game. 

Again, it's not rocket surgery.  Look at the game schedules and then add practice time for baseball, softball, soccer.   

If the fields are used primarily in the spring and summer, then it's actually hard to overuse Bermuda.  A practice a day is not going to do it.  The only time I have seen Bermuda wear out in the spring or summer is on some Huntsville city fields that allow up to 6 soccer games a day, and then only when it's really rainy.  Huntsville city now has a rather aggressive policy of postponing games if it rains even a decent amount.

For my field on the base that's not an issue, because we only play three games a week.  An occasional slightly muddy game is okay, even in the fall.

Regardless, the root cause (pun intended!  ) is the re-sodding.  Maybe the issue is that as a relatively junior guy, Seybold just didn't have the balls to stand up to Butch and tell him it was stupid, or perhaps was unwilling to paint the field (which I personally think is stupid anyway....just let it be brown).

I would only really get on Hart/Butch if they directly ordered Seybold to re-sod.  If he did that on his own initiative, then frankly he should have known better.  I am a relative novice at field maintenance, but i would never suggest re-sodding. 

[HerbTarlekVol]

I would only really get on Hart/Butch if they directly ordered Seybold to re-sod.  If he did that on his own initiative, then frankly he should have known better.  I am a relative novice at field maintenance, but i would never suggest re-sodding. 

So, using reason and logic, who does Seybold work for?  Is it not a logical and reasonable assumption to make that he has to report to Hart or those Hart designates as his up line?  Is it not logical and reasonable to expect that something as drastic and expensive as a complete re-sodding of the playing surface at Shields-Watkins Field would have to be run by and approved by a higher up in the UTAD, and that questions would be asked as to why it has become necessary every year? 

And I see that the shooting the messenger thing is in full bore. 

So, for those of you who want to shoot T-Boz down, do you believe that Jimmy Hyams has more credibility than Tony does?  If so, he pretty much has made similar statements recently, as well. 

[BanditVol]

So, using reason and logic, who does Seybold work for?  Is it not a logical and reasonable assumption to make that he has to report to Hart or those Hart designates as his up line?  Is it not logical and reasonable to expect that something as drastic and expensive as a complete re-sodding of the playing surface at Shields-Watkins Field would have to be run by and approved by a higher up in the UTAD, and that questions would be asked as to why it has become necessary every year? 

Who the hell knows how it went down?  Were you in the private AD meetings?

[BanditVol]

And I see that the shooting the messenger thing is in full bore. 

Not at all.  I haven't said a single negative thing about you or Bosillo. 

And for the record, Seybold reports to Kevin Zurcher, a former classmate of mine.

[Clockwork Orange]

And I see that the shooting the messenger thing is in full bore. 

So, for those of you who want to shoot T-Boz down, do you believe that Jimmy Hyams has more credibility than Tony does?  If so, he pretty much has made similar statements recently, as well. 

I'm not shooting anyone or trying to shoot anyone down. I'd just rather wait and see how this one plays out than go all-in on a theory floated by a radio personality.

[HerbTarlekVol]

Who the hell knows how it went down?  Were you in the private AD meetings?

No, but I have a brain to think logically with and understand how chains of command work in the real world.

Do you honestly believe that Seybold is a lone ranger just doing what he wants to do without having accountability to those he is responsible to?

No offense, Bandit, but that would be just plain stupid to believe possible.    

  

[BanditVol]

No, but I have a brain to think logically with and understand how chains of command work in the real world.

Do you honestly believe that Seybold is a lone ranger just doing what he wants to do without having accountability to those he is responsible to?

No offense, Bandit, but that would be just plain stupid to believe possible.    

  

My opinion, right or wrong, is that even if directly ordered to re-sod, and that may well have been the case, as an expert Seybold should have known enough to stand up to the AD and say "look, that's stupid and it won't work". 

If I know that, then he certainly should.

That's all I'm saying. 

[HerbTarlekVol]

My opinion, right or wrong, is that even if directly ordered to re-sod, and that may well have been the case, as an expert Seybold should have known enough to stand up to the AD and say "look, that's stupid and it won't work". 

And do you know he didn't?  Were you in the meeting with the AD? 

Really, Bandit.  Believe it or not, and I really don't give a rats ass which you choose, some people in this town do actually have contact with folks in the UTAD who know what's going on within it. 

Some people refuse to believe that the coaches and administrators within the UTAD are actually human and do stupid things and make stupid decisions at times.  It has to be that damned media - they are all nothing but arrogant attention seekers and just make up everything they say. 

Take off the orange tinted glasses occasionally and think about what you are posting. 

[HerbTarlekVol]

And I never got an answer to the question I asked about Hyams. 

[BanditVol]

And do you know he didn't?  Were you in the meeting with the AD? 

Really, Bandit.  Believe it or not, and I really don't give a rats ass which you choose, some people in this town do actually have contact with folks in the UTAD who know what's going on within it. 

Some people refuse to believe that the coaches and administrators within the UTAD are actually human and do stupid things and make stupid decisions at times.  It has to be that damned media - they are all nothing but arrogant attention seekers and just make up everything they say. 

Take off the orange tinted glasses occasionally and think about what you are posting. 

HTK, you are as thin skinned as always.

But it's okay, I'm used to it.   

I've said all I plan to say on this. /thread

[Creek Walker]

And I see that the shooting the messenger thing is in full bore. 

So, for those of you who want to shoot T-Boz down, do you believe that Jimmy Hyams has more credibility than Tony does?  If so, he pretty much has made similar statements recently, as well. 

I tend to be skeptical by nature but I've bought what Tony has sold in the past and been burned. Like I said, he may very well be right but I'm like CO - I'll take a wait-and-see approach. Tbh, I do think Jimmy is more trustworthy than Tony but I also think he left a lot more open to speculation than Tony's report did.

[Volznut]

I don't know if true - but if he does want green all year then go to synthetic turf

[HerbTarlekVol]

HTK, you are as thin skinned as always.

But it's okay, I'm used to it.   

I've said all I plan to say on this. /thread

I'm thin skinned? 

That's always your comeback when you don't have logical backing for your argument.  You can't answer with reasonable debate. 

Nope, not thin skinned.  Just have the ability to see through somebody trying to BS his way in, through, and out of an argument that he has no real clue of subject matter.

[BanditVol]

I'm thin skinned? 

That's always your comeback when you don't have logical backing for your argument.  You can't answer with reasonable debate. 

Nope, not thin skinned.  Just have the ability to see through somebody trying to BS his way in, through, and out of an argument that he has no real clue of subject matter.

I'm done commenting on the field, as I noted.  My arguments were exceptionally reasonable and logical.  If you can point where they were not, please do so.  As I note above, I am actually responsible for the health of an athletic field with grass similar to Neyland, so I do know something about it.

What I will comment on further is you.  Isn't it so that Basillio and yourself share the same employer?

Do you think he's just trolling for cheap clicks, and are you attempting to help him?

I expect a logical and reasonable answer sir.   

Likely we will get more ranting though.   

[PirateVOL]

So, using reason and logic, who does Seybold work for?  Is it not a logical and reasonable assumption to make that he has to report to Hart or those Hart designates as his up line?  Is it not logical and reasonable to expect that something as drastic and expensive as a complete re-sodding of the playing surface at Shields-Watkins Field would have to be run by and approved by a higher up in the UTAD, and that questions would be asked as to why it has become necessary every year? 

And I see that the shooting the messenger thing is in full bore. 

So, for those of you who want to shoot T-Boz down, do you believe that Jimmy Hyams has more credibility than Tony does?  If so, he pretty much has made similar statements recently, as well. 

Nobody was "shooting him down"  A couple of posters, based on past experience, stated some RESERVATIONS till additional supporting data was known, that is ALL.

[Black Diamond Vol]

As T-Boz points out - it's impossible to have a field that is a quality playing surface AND one that stays green the entire year living in an area where we get 4 distinct seasons as we do in East Tennessee.  

I'll post the same disclaimer I did the other day:  I know absolutely nothing about growing and maintaining turf.  I don't claim to be anything resembling an expert.  

That said, it wasn't too long ago when our field COULD go the whole season and stay green and in good shape.  Witness these highlights from the 2010 UK game held after Thanksgiving:

https://www.youtube.com/v/sZl2J790i1I

That field looked exponentially better than it does right now.  Something has obviously changed since then.  I won't even attempt to assign blame, but I hope the powers that be will figure it out and fix it.