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Author Topic: Star Wars first impressions  (Read 9666 times)
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Black Diamond Vol
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« on: December 19, 2015, 01:47:06 EST »

First, a disclaimer: I'm not going to be overly effusive in my praise.  When a film gets this much hype, your want for it to be great sometimes clouds your initial judgement.  Don't believe me?  Just search youtube for fan reactions to Phantom Menace.  People who were just walking out of the theater were overwhelmingly positive.  But given some time to reflect, most came to realize that Jar-Jar sucked, and the "plot" of a trade embargo and endless political maneuvering was overly complicated and stupid. 

So with that said, I thought The Force awakens was great, and I believe it will indeed stand the test of time.  The plot was thankfully simplified (if a bit overly familiar).  The new characters are mostly quality additions to the franchise (I can't wait to get some backstory for a couple in particular).  The action scenes are beatifully shot and easy for the viewer to visually follow (unlike a lot of action films these days).  There isn't a over-reliance on CGI.  There are funny moments and sad (one in particular brought a lot of folks to tears). 

So yeah, two big thumbs up.  I'll let you know if I change my mind in a few weeks.
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2015, 02:54:03 EST »

First, a disclaimer: I'm not going to be overly effusive in my praise.  When a film gets this much hype, your want for it to be great sometimes clouds your initial judgement.  Don't believe me?  Just search youtube for fan reactions to Phantom Menace.  People who were just walking out of the theater were overwhelmingly positive.  But given some time to reflect, most came to realize that Jar-Jar sucked, and the "plot" of a trade embargo and endless political maneuvering was overly complicated and stupid. 

So with that said, I thought The Force awakens was great, and I believe it will indeed stand the test of time.  The plot was thankfully simplified (if a bit overly familiar).  The new characters are mostly quality additions to the franchise (I can't wait to get some backstory for a couple in particular).  The action scenes are beatifully shot and easy for the viewer to visually follow (unlike a lot of action films these days).  There isn't a over-reliance on CGI.  There are funny moments and sad (one in particular brought a lot of folks to tears). 

So yeah, two big thumbs up.  I'll let you know if I change my mind in a few weeks.

It was very good, I thought.  New characters are mostly good.  Making Finn a stormtrooper is a nice twist. Agree that the action was great for the most part (the on-ship part with the two gangs was a bit clunky maybe).

My primary reaction...yes a bit familiar.  The dark side guys are chasing a droid again, the person who loaded the droid is captured and has to be rescued (although male and rescued by a storm trooper, lol), there is a female "Luke", the original action happens on a desert planet, there is a death weapon at the end that again has to be destroyed.

I guess that's JJ Abrams for you though...it's not quite a reboot but a new film in the genre highly reminiscent of the first.  And, oh yeah, Rai is going off to study with Luke, much like Luke spends most of Empire as the understudy to Yoda.  And a beloved older character who was a mentor dies.

Anyway, it was still really good, and having Kylo Ren be the son of Leia and Han makes a great amount of sense in terms of the original series.

If I was to focus on a flaw, maybe it's the ability of Rei to use the force on her own, while Luke had to be trained for a period of time by Ben Kenobi and was still weak.  It seems unlikely that Rei could stand up to Ren the way she does, but at the end of the day that's pretty minor and Ren is also still training with Snokes, which might even the field, and he was injured when they fought also.

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Black Diamond Vol
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2015, 04:02:48 EST »

It was very good, I thought.  New characters are mostly good.  Making Finn a stormtrooper is a nice twist. Agree that the action was great for the most part (the on-ship part with the two gangs was a bit clunky maybe).

My primary reaction...yes a bit familiar.  The dark side guys are chasing a droid again, the person who loaded the droid is captured and has to be rescued (although male and rescued by a storm trooper, lol), there is a female "Luke", the original action happens on a desert planet, there is a death weapon at the end that again has to be destroyed.

I guess that's JJ Abrams for you though...it's not quite a reboot but a new film in the genre highly reminiscent of the first.  And, oh yeah, Rai is going off to study with Luke, much like Luke spends most of Empire as the understudy to Yoda.  And a beloved older character who was a mentor dies.

Anyway, it was still really good, and having Kylo Ren be the son of Leia and Han makes a great amount of sense in terms of the original series.

If I was to focus on a flaw, maybe it's the ability of Rei to use the force on her own, while Luke had to be trained for a period of time by Ben Kenobi and was still weak.  It seems unlikely that Rei could stand up to Ren the way she does, but at the end of the day that's pretty minor and Ren is also still training with Snokes, which might even the field, and he was injured when they fought also.



Well, I guess we're getting spoiler-y now, so anyone who hasn't seen it might not want to read any further.

Your last point was my biggest gripe as well.  Not just Rei, but Finn too.  How is it that two people with no jedi training who have never handled a lightsaber before are able to hang with KR in a duel?  It made a LITTLE more sense when it was revealed that KR hadn't completed his training yet, but still...

And why does KR wear the mask?  It doesn't seem to give him any special powers.  It's not covering up any injury or keeping him alive like with Vader.  He's clearly a very insecure person with a major inferiority complex, so maybe it's just a psychological thing?  Or maybe he just idolizes Vader that much that he wants to be like him?  I really want to see his backstory.

Did you get the impression that Rei may also be part of the Skywalker family?  They never came out and said so, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's revealed in the future.  She looks like a young Leia, anyway.
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2015, 07:51:50 EST »

Saw it tonight.... best star wars movie by far IMO. Yes the plot was similar to episode 4, but it was done better. This one is obviously a handoff to the younger generation, but JJ Abrams knows what he is doing.

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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2015, 07:55:58 EST »

Well, I guess we're getting spoiler-y now, so anyone who hasn't seen it might not want to read any further.

Your last point was my biggest gripe as well.  Not just Rei, but Finn too.  How is it that two people with no jedi training who have never handled a lightsaber before are able to hang with KR in a duel?  It made a LITTLE more sense when it was revealed that KR hadn't completed his training yet, but still...

And why does KR wear the mask?  It doesn't seem to give him any special powers.  It's not covering up any injury or keeping him alive like with Vader.  He's clearly a very insecure person with a major inferiority complex, so maybe it's just a psychological thing?  Or maybe he just idolizes Vader that much that he wants to be like him?  I really want to see his backstory.

Did you get the impression that Rei may also be part of the Skywalker family?  They never came out and said so, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's revealed in the future.  She looks like a young Leia, anyway.

Rey is obviously Luke's daughter which makes her and Kylo Ren cousins. The force is strong with her, she can fly, etc. I didn't think Finn handled Kylo Ren that well, he got his ass kicked.




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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2015, 04:12:11 EST »

Saw it tonight.... best star wars movie by far IMO. Yes the plot was similar to episode 4, but it was done better. This one is obviously a handoff to the younger generation, but JJ Abrams knows what he is doing.



Don't agree that its' the best, although it's very good.  Its still a little too derivative of the original for me.  Plus, nothing will ever top Empire for me, which I saw when I was 14.   

It's certainly one of the best.

I am also leaning towards Rei is Luke's daughter.  Was thinking Leia but both Leia and Han met her and never mentioned anything to her or each other. 

It's possible that the Millenium Falcon was deliberately left on Jakku and that Han actually knew who she was (his niece?) all along.  But we will see in time.

One other thing I find a bit odd is that there is still a "Resistance" even though the Republic has been re-established.  As if JJ wanted to hold on to that part of the story line whether it made sense to or not.  I suppose the Resistance could be a paramilitary arm of the Republic, but why not just make it Republic vs First Order?  That part wasn't explained at all.

What is clear is that instead of being a desperate band of ragged rebels, the Resistance can more than hold it's ground in this one, which is a nice change from 4-6.
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2015, 06:10:32 EST »

Rey is obviously Luke's daughter which makes her and Kylo Ren cousins. The force is strong with her, she can fly, etc. I didn't think Finn handled Kylo Ren that well, he got his ass kicked.






I wouldn't think she's his daughter- that would seem too obvious.  And that being the case, they probably would've just gone ahead and made that reveal now, rather than save it for a future movie.  But I think they definitely have SOME connection.  I've heard some speculation that this isn't the first time Rei and Luke have met- that she has trained with him in the past.  That would explain her unexpected lightsaber skills. 

Only two more years till we find out more.
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2015, 06:19:03 EST »

I wouldn't think she's his daughter- that would seem too obvious.  And that being the case, they probably would've just gone ahead and made that reveal now, rather than save it for a future movie.  But I think they definitely have SOME connection.  I've heard some speculation that this isn't the first time Rei and Luke have met- that she has trained with him in the past.  That would explain her unexpected lightsaber skills. 

Only two more years till we find out more.

I suppose it's possible that Finn is the son of Lando Calrisian, but I doubt it.

Who would be Rei's family if not Luke?  And if Luke, I assume a lady needs to be involved.  Of course, Anakin's mother didn't need a father, which is, by far, the stupidest thing in the entire series of 12 including the off-year prequels coming up, and that includes 5 movies I haven't even seen yet.   

But back on topic, her missing family is a big part of the plot, so something is up there.  If not related to one of the three main characters (two of whom are married) then I am at a loss who the parents would be, because they will almost certainly be revealed. 

She could be the daughter of one of the other Jedi's in 1-3, or more likely, granddaughter. 
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2015, 06:25:21 EST »

I suppose it's possible that Finn is the son of Lando Calrisian, but I doubt it.

Who would be Rei's family if not Luke?  And if Luke, I assume a lady needs to be involved.  Of course, Anakin's mother didn't need a father, which is, by far, the stupidest thing in the entire series of 12 including the off-year prequels coming up, and that includes 5 movies I haven't even seen yet.  

But back on topic, her missing family is a big part of the plot, so something is up there.  If not related to one of the three main characters (two of whom are married) then I am at a loss who the parents would be, because they will almost certainly be revealed.  

She could be the daughter of one of the other Jedi's in 1-3, or more likely, granddaughter.  

Finn is another I wonder about.  Wasn't it established in the prequels that all stormtroopers are cloned from the same person, and are bred to be incapable of individualism or original thought?  So what happened with Finn?  That doesn't jive with his story about being ripped away from his family as a child.
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2015, 06:35:39 EST »

Finn is another I wonder about.  Wasn't it established in the prequels that all stormtroopers are cloned from the same person, and are bred to be incapable of individualism or original thought?  So what happened with Finn?  That doesn't jive with his story about being ripped away from his family as a child.

they addressed that in the movie, though it was easy to miss.  when finn's commander is discussing his desertion, she states that he was ripped from his family, and although I can't recall the exact dialogue, one of the other officers she is speaking with defends the decisions to "not use clones" and indoctrinate from an early age.

So apparently the First Order is no longer using clones, or at least not all the storm troopers are clones.
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2015, 06:38:40 EST »

BDV your speculations on Rei might be accurate.  This blog posted before the movie was spot on with everything else, and states that Rei was an orphan befriended by Luke and that Luke sensed the dark side in Ren and chose her over Ren, which is what drove Ren more firmly into the dark side.  It also states that Ren was abducted by the Knights of Ren.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Wars-Force-Awakens-Introduce-Any-Luke-Skywalker-Blood-Relatives-88837.html

Like I said, it gets everything else right, and the explanation of Rei seems a very good fit.   No matter who she is, she almost certainly was trained by Luke. The flashbacks she got from the light saber bear closer attention to detail if when I see it again.   
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« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2015, 05:35:20 EST »

BDV your speculations on Rei might be accurate.  This blog posted before the movie was spot on with everything else, and states that Rei was an orphan befriended by Luke and that Luke sensed the dark side in Ren and chose her over Ren, which is what drove Ren more firmly into the dark side.  It also states that Ren was abducted by the Knights of Ren.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Wars-Force-Awakens-Introduce-Any-Luke-Skywalker-Blood-Relatives-88837.html

Like I said, it gets everything else right, and the explanation of Rei seems a very good fit.   No matter who she is, she almost certainly was trained by Luke. The flashbacks she got from the light saber bear closer attention to detail if when I see it again.  


ah yes the flashbacks, forgot about that. However Rei said that she thought Luke was a myth. At first I thought Rei and Ren were twins, but it didn't seem Leia or Han knew who she was


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« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2015, 05:41:36 EST »

I have never heard anyone extol 'Empire' as one of the better Star Wars movies before (merely an observation on my part). As for jar jar... I had the same reflex most everyone else had but as I have thought about it... It may actually fit the reaction one would have to some of the more exotic aliens. The ones I liked the best were 'Jedi' and 'Sith'.
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« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2015, 12:51:39 EST »

I just read that the stormtrooper that Rei first uses the "Jedi mind trick" on was none other than Daniel Craig.  Apparently "Spectre" was shooting in the studio right next door that day, and he asked if he could do a cameo.
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« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2015, 04:53:36 EST »

I have never heard anyone extol 'Empire' as one of the better Star Wars movies before (merely an observation on my part).

Really? V is widely considered the best of the original trilogy, with IV second and VI a rather distant third. In my experience there is broad consensus on that but YMMV.

I think this one was at least on par with VI. I'll have to rewatch a time or two to figure out where exactly it fits in, but it was clearly better than I-III IMO and the acting was miles ahead of all six prior films.
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2015, 05:16:31 EST »

I have never heard anyone extol 'Empire' as one of the better Star Wars movies before (merely an observation on my part). As for jar jar... I had the same reflex most everyone else had but as I have thought about it... It may actually fit the reaction one would have to some of the more exotic aliens. The ones I liked the best were 'Jedi' and 'Sith'.

Most will tell you Empire is the clear best of 1-6. Now I actually liked the new one better, mainly because I really liked the new Rey and Finn characters, and the acting was way better than the previous movies.
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« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2015, 09:29:07 EST »

Really? V is widely considered the best of the original trilogy, with IV second and VI a rather distant third. In my experience there is broad consensus on that but YMMV.

I think this one was at least on par with VI. I'll have to rewatch a time or two to figure out where exactly it fits in, but it was clearly better than I-III IMO and the acting was miles ahead of all six prior films.

As of now, I would put this one at #3, behind V and IV, respectively.  VI was a little to ewok-heavy for me.
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2015, 04:42:40 EST »

As of now, I would put this one at #3, behind V and IV, respectively.  VI was a little to ewok-heavy for me.
Those are my thoughts on VI.  At first I thought it was the best, since, after all, the Rebels won and so forth, but on rewatching it there were in fact a bit too many Ewoks.

Agree on the order of V and IV.  IV is always the classic, but Empire was by far the most unpredictable. I mean, Darth being Luke's father was a huge and who could have predicted Han  Solo being encased in carbonite?  Plus the action in Empire was at least comparable, if not better, than the original.

I was 13 about to turn 14 when Empire came out and I bought the book adaptation a day before going to see the movie (it came out early for some reason).  I wasn't planning to read it, but could not resist.   I managed to have enough discipline to stop reading about 80% in...one page before Darth reveals he is Luke's father.   

The effect of having known about 80% of the plot and still  not knowing that key piece of information, not to mention how much I anticipated it at that age, I don't think can be matched for me. 
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« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2015, 06:48:07 EST »

Just saw it. I'd rank it at #4. The sabre scenes don't compare to 'sith'. It is nearly a remake of IV. As for too many ewoks... It had to happen on someone's homeworld. If it hadn't been them it would have been too many of something else. It was made for a wide audience.
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« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2015, 06:52:42 EST »

So if you haven't seen the movie, you should already have this thread on ignore.  But that goes double for this post.  Seriously.  You have been warned...





Let's talk about the death of Han Solo.  Where does that rank among the all-time gut wrenching screen deaths?  I've seen many liken it to Obi-Wan's death in A New Hope, but I don't even think that's comparable.  By the time OWK died, we had known him for all of, what, 80 minutes?  Whereas the character of Han Solo has been a pop culture icon for nearly 40 years.  And when you think about all the shizzle he managed to survive in the earlier movies, to die under these circumstances makes it especially heartbreaking.  

No, I think you have to go outside the Star Wars universe to find anything close.  Fredo Corleone, maybe?  Captain Miller from Saving Private Ryan?  Old Yeller?  What do you think?
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« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2015, 06:57:10 EST »

So if you haven't seen the movie, you should already have this thread on ignore.  But that goes double for this post.  Seriously.  You have been warned...





Let's talk about the death of Han Solo.  Where does that rank among the all-time gut wrenching screen deaths?  I've seen many liken it to Obi-Wan's death in A New Hope, but I don't even think that's comparable.  By the time OWK died, we had known him for all of, what, 80 minutes?  Whereas the character of Han Solo has been a pop culture icon for nearly 40 years.  And when you think about all the shizzle he managed to survive in the earlier movies, to die under these circumstances makes it especially heartbreaking.  

No, I think you have to go outside the Star Wars universe to find anything close.  Fredo Corleone, maybe?  Captain Miller from Saving Private Ryan?  Old Yeller?  What do you think?

I would say that Glenns (apparent) death on walking dead was probably a bit more shocking. I expected solo to die. The real surprise for me was the cameo of Luke.
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« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2015, 07:29:25 EST »

So if you haven't seen the movie, you should already have this thread on ignore.  But that goes double for this post.  Seriously.  You have been warned...





Let's talk about the death of Han Solo.  Where does that rank among the all-time gut wrenching screen deaths?  I've seen many liken it to Obi-Wan's death in A New Hope, but I don't even think that's comparable.  By the time OWK died, we had known him for all of, what, 80 minutes?  Whereas the character of Han Solo has been a pop culture icon for nearly 40 years.  And when you think about all the shizzle he managed to survive in the earlier movies, to die under these circumstances makes it especially heartbreaking.  

No, I think you have to go outside the Star Wars universe to find anything close.  Fredo Corleone, maybe?  Captain Miller from Saving Private Ryan?  Old Yeller?  What do you think?

Fredo Corleone?  He was a traitor and a weak character.  I certainly didn't find his death wrenching in any way.  Then again, I think Michael and any other mob scum also deserve to die.   

Captain Miller was a bit too expected and obvious and overdone IMO, though it was still sad.

Old Yeller certainly was tear wrenching.   

I half expected Han to die.  Honestly he may not be completely dead.  He has survived before.

Assuming that is actually dead, then it was still surprising in spite of my suspicions. I wonder if JJ let himself be influenced by GOT a bit?  In which the whole "death of beloved characters" is way over done, to say the least.

Then again, maybe Ford just didn't want to do more than one movie, who knows.

Or JJ was afraid Ford would wreck his airplane again prior to the next movie.   

Having said all that, it's definitely the saddest moment in the entire series to date, and it's hard to imagine it being topped.

There is a small chance that the death was staged as part of a plot to get Kei closer to Snoke.  Which is entirely my theory, and unlikely to be true, but I think even if not deliberate, Kylo will come around at the end like Vader did.
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« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2015, 02:33:30 EST »

So if you haven't seen the movie, you should already have this thread on ignore.  But that goes double for this post.  Seriously.  You have been warned...





Let's talk about the death of Han Solo.  Where does that rank among the all-time gut wrenching screen deaths?  I've seen many liken it to Obi-Wan's death in A New Hope, but I don't even think that's comparable.  By the time OWK died, we had known him for all of, what, 80 minutes?  Whereas the character of Han Solo has been a pop culture icon for nearly 40 years.  And when you think about all the shizzle he managed to survive in the earlier movies, to die under these circumstances makes it especially heartbreaking.  

No, I think you have to go outside the Star Wars universe to find anything close.  Fredo Corleone, maybe?  Captain Miller from Saving Private Ryan?  Old Yeller?  What do you think?

I hated it but was expecting it. These three are a passing of the torch. I expect Leia and Luke to get killed within the next 2 as well.
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