UT press conference

[Creek Walker]

So it's been announced that Butch Jones and 15 other UT coaches will participate in a 10 a.m. press conference tomorrow. It's almost certainly going to be related to "the lawsuit" and odds are it's gonna be one of those circle-the-wagons, nothing-to-see-here press conferences. But does anyone want to wager that Hart will come out and announce that Tennessee has self-imposed a football postseason ban for 2016? It would be such a Tennessee thing to do.

[BanditVol]

I think you think Hamilton is still AD. 

[murfvol]

This press conference is the worst idea ever (UT presidential searches excluded) .

[HerbTarlekVol]

This press conference is the worst idea ever (UT presidential searches excluded) .

Why?  I thought it was a good response to the negative stuff being spread by the national media, and from all indications there are more outlets working on their spin, as well. 

Was there anything earth shattering coming out of it?  No, but it does give the perception that all of the sports - mens and womens - are united, and that hasn't been the perception through the Lady Vol name controversy on through the current mess.

Plus, none other than Holly Warlkick pretty much told "disgruntled former employees", speaking of those of the ilk of Debbie Jennings - to shut their pie holes. 

I have no problem with the presser, and I have no problem with Dave Hart not being there given that he is a named defendant in the current ongoing lawsuit.  He couldn't have said anything had he been there. 

[volsboy]

So what was said at the press conference? This whole situation is unfortunate. The truth is a tough thing to get at in today's world. I still feel the old smoke/fire addage is vaguely appropriate. Anyone with a daughter understands.

[Tnphil]

Why?  I thought it was a good response to the negative stuff being spread by the national media, and from all indications there are more outlets working on their spin, as well. 

Was there anything earth shattering coming out of it?  No, but it does give the perception that all of the sports - mens and womens - are united, and that hasn't been the perception through the Lady Vol name controversy on through the current mess.

Plus, none other than Holly Warlkick pretty much told "disgruntled former employees", speaking of those of the ilk of Debbie Jennings - to shut their pie holes. 

I have no problem with the presser, and I have no problem with Dave Hart not being there given that he is a named defendant in the current ongoing lawsuit.  He couldn't have said anything had he been there. 

Agree100%...when you say NOTHING...then it just adds more fuel to the fire.

[BanditVol]

So what was said at the press conference? This whole situation is unfortunate. The truth is a tough thing to get at in today's world. I still feel the old smoke/fire addage is vaguely appropriate. Anyone with a daughter understands.

I caught part of it on my drive to work on talk radio.  The part I caught was the coaches talking about how the coach the players in life as well as sports, although they didn't put it that way.  Just things like they tell the ladies to be careful, ask the men to think before they act and realize they have to live with decisions, talk about how positive the atmosphere is on campus, etc.   That sort of thing.

[Creek Walker]

I agree with Herb. I expected the equivalent of a circle-jerk. And while it was still much ado about nothing, I was pleasantly surprised with how well done it was. I thought the coaches made a strong statement of unity and a good show of fighting back. It's easy to lay low, and that's obviously the best advice in most of these situations. However, this university has really taken it on the chin in recent days and sometimes you can't wait for things to play out in court before you fight back for your credibility. Especially when it's high-stakes recruiting that's on the line. (And especially because this case will likely never play out in court, as UT will wisely settle for a token payout without admitting fault.)

[volsboy]

Of course none of us are so blind that we can't see that these athletes are protected. Just look at all the sexual assault/rape cases that happen and are reported at schools all over the country. Look at how many end up not being prosecuted for one reason or another. You can not tell me that all of the accusers are lying. Why, in most cases does it seem the athlete is the one that gets the benefit of the doubt?

[HerbTarlekVol]

Of course none of us are so blind that we can't see that these athletes are protected. Just look at all the sexual assault/rape cases that happen and are reported at schools all over the country. Look at how many end up not being prosecuted for one reason or another. You can not tell me that all of the accusers are lying. Why, in most cases does it seem the athlete is the one that gets the benefit of the doubt?

I don't think anybody believes that they are "all lying".  

The athletes aren't being "protected" from prosecution when the facts warrant it.  Ask AJ Johnson, Michael Williams, now Alexis Johnson.  They have all been immediately suspended - booted from the team - until the cases are either tried or disposed of one way or the other.

What else is UT supposed to do?  

And, yes, it goes on everywhere.  The fact that several hit in a short period of time and the lawsuit was filed is why UT is in the spotlight right now.  

As I have said many times over, I just want the truth to come out, no matter who is caught in that truth. 

[Clockwork Orange]

Of course none of us are so blind that we can't see that these athletes are protected. Just look at all the sexual assault/rape cases that happen and are reported at schools all over the country. Look at how many end up not being prosecuted for one reason or another. You can not tell me that all of the accusers are lying. Why, in most cases does it seem the athlete is the one that gets the benefit of the doubt?

How does that compare to cases on college campuses that do not involve an athlete? I don't know the answer but it seems like you'd need to know that to figure out if the athletes are getting off easy.

[volsboy]

UT's fanbase is no different from most. When one of our players is accused we automatically assume the "it's a witch-hunt" mentality. But if its one of our opponents program then its "bury the bastages". Unfortunately I feel it's just normal fan reactions.

[HerbTarlekVol]

UT's fanbase is no different from most. When one of our players is accused we automatically assume the "it's a witch-hunt" mentality. But if its one of our opponents program then its "bury the bastages". Unfortunately I feel it's just normal fan reactions.

I don't think that is the consensus of the fan base.  It may be the opinion of a small part of the fan base who are, by definition, fanatics - the orange sheep that I mention at times and tend to piss people off here, but I believe that a large, large, majority of those who support UT and UT sports just want the truth, no matter what that truth turns out to be.  

[volsboy]

How does that compare to cases on college campuses that do not involve an athlete? I don't know the answer but it seems like you'd need to know that to figure out if the athletes are getting off easy.

I agree, but it was the football program that recruited these guys and invited(begged) them to be Vols. I know they knew a lot of these guys are not choirboys, but their football skills trumped all of their thug tendencies. And don't tell me with orange colored glasses that we never recruit thugs. You and I know our roster has been loaded with them for years. Or am I way off base in that assertion. I just wonder how you can recruit some of these athletes with known character issues and not expect a few bad things to happen. A lot of these athletes think that because they are football players, they are above ramifications. And in a lot of situations, they are. The sad part is, this goes on at a lot of schools.

[Creek Walker]

This is ridiculous. Are you saying, volsboy, that Tennessee coaches should have known that AJ Johnson the 18-year-old high school senior was going to assault a woman as a 22-year-old college senior? That's what you're saying, right? "Their football skills trumped all of their thug tendencies." I mean, do you have proof that Johnson had done anything to indicate he was going to commit this crime when he was recruited? In fact, Tennessee's rape case is pretty terrible supporting proof for your argument because Johnson was by all accounts a model member of the football team before he was accused.

Maybe it was different at Volnation.com but there was no one on this board who suggested the case against Johnson was a witch hunt. Maybe there were some posts saying the D.A. should move forward with the case and either present it to the grand jury or close it for good so that if there wasn't sufficient proof for the case to move forward Johnson could be reinstated but I don't recall anyone standing up for Johnson in light of the proof that was presented. I don't recall anyone making out his accuser to be a liar.

And I'm with Herb on this. Johnson and Williams were immediately suspended from the team. Where's the evidence that they were protected? Where's the evidence that someone was interfering with their prosecution?

[volsboy]

This is ridiculous. Are you saying, volsboy, that Tennessee coaches should have known that AJ Johnson the 18-year-old high school senior was going to assault a woman as a 22-year-old college senior? That's what you're saying, right? "Their football skills trumped all of their thug tendencies." I mean, do you have proof that Johnson had done anything to indicate he was going to commit this crime when he was recruited? In fact, Tennessee's rape case is pretty terrible supporting proof for your argument because Johnson was by all accounts a model member of the football team before he was accused.

Maybe it was different at Volnation.com but there was no one on this board who suggested the case against Johnson was a witch hunt. Maybe there were some posts saying the D.A. should move forward with the case and either present it to the grand jury or close it for good so that if there wasn't sufficient proof for the case to move forward Johnson could be reinstated but I don't recall anyone standing up for Johnson in light of the proof that was presented. I don't recall anyone making out his accuser to be a liar.

And I'm with Herb on this. Johnson and Williams were immediately suspended from the team. Where's the evidence that they were protected? Where's the evidence that someone was interfering with their prosecution?

Are you saying that none of these recruits character flaws were not known by the coaching staff. I am sure they research these guys and know exactly what they are getting. Of course that doesn't mean that they necessarily will get into trouble. But i would be certain that a student there on an academic scholarship would not have these same character issues and the odds are higher that the individuals we recruit for football have more character issue that National Honor society members. Plus I am talking about all the minor cases that are swept under the rug. Of course with a major incident like that, they have no other recourse but to suspend them. But it is the nature of the type of recruits you have to go after if you want to have a successful program. I don't want to seem like I'm piling on the Vols. just look at Briles at Baylor. He took a player he knew committed a sexual assault at TCU and then denied knowing about it. It's all about the current win at any cost mentality of major college sports, especially football. Are you really insisting that none of the Vols recruits are thugs and that none of them were thugs before being recruited. It's what I meant by fans saying our players aren't thugs but yours are. How many incidents are swept under the rug? Don't you think that is why, just maybe, the lawsuits are occuring? Are we naive? You are already defending the school without hearing all the facts. Maybe the culture there is effed up. I just want the truth. Kinda like the Bill Cosby case. Are all these women complaining for no reason? I would think not. I want to know and think we have a right to know. Don't be offended, because I don't mean you personally, just the whole fanbase in general. Myself included. I've dismissed a lot of accusations, over the years, against Vols players as just sour grapes. Maybe i was wrong.

[73Volgrad]

volsboy let me jump in. You are painting all young men with the thug label. How can you determine character in an 18 year old and forecast what they will do years or for that matter hours later? How may things are sweep under the rug and hidden? IMO that happens more in high school than the college level. Are all student athletes choir boys? No. Are all college males choir boys? No. The only reason college athletes are in the news is money. Lawyers know that they can make outlandish claims against football players and get paid hush money. Why do you think lawyers are not suing over assault cases involving non-athletes more? Because they have zero leverage.

Yes I want to get the truth out, but not at the expense of railroading innocent young men and ruining their lives just because you are accused. Title IX is being used as a club to convict people without proving it in a court of law. They want punishment if it looks like you may be 51% guilty. Not guilty just the appearance that you may be guilty. Title IX requires you have procedures in place and the lawyers do not like the fact that the accusers can be afforded a defense. They only want the accusers side presented and the accused cannot respond. The accusers can have a lawyer, but the accused cannot. They want conviction without proving it.

I do not believe every claim is true. When a large settlement can be obtained at little risk (Jane Doe without using real names?), yes I begin to doubt the validity of these claims. Call me a skeptic. If you were wronged, go after the one that did it and not Mr. Deep pockets. The problem is the old cry wolf too often result. All it takes is several of these cases found to be false and then everyone is going to assume the charges are not true even for the guilty. Rape has no business being adjudicated by any college or university. It is a criminal matter that has to be done in the criminal courts and not the newspaper.

[HerbTarlekVol]

If a prospective student athlete has a clean record coming in, he/she can do the academic work (and I am in favor of a little higher standard than just minimum clearinghouse requirements since it takes a much better academic standing for a non-athlete to get in to UT now), and gets good recommendations from high school administration and teachers, they deserve an opportunity at UT, in my opinion. 

That said, they shouldn't be given multiple chances once they violate school or team policy, and anytime they are arrested they should be immediately suspended until there is a reasonable time for authorities to either press charges or drop charges after an investigation.  I'd much rather UT send a message early on, rather than too late. 

And where I differ with most is that once a student gets past his or her freshman year, it's hard for me to buy the argument that they are "just kids". 19, 20, 21, 22 is old enough to know how they are supposed to behave.  I'll give them a mulligan for their freshmen years, but after that they aren't kids any longer. 

[Creek Walker]

Are you saying that none of these recruits character flaws were not known by the coaching staff. I am sure they research these guys and know exactly what they are getting. Of course that doesn't mean that they necessarily will get into trouble. But i would be certain that a student there on an academic scholarship would not have these same character issues and the odds are higher that the individuals we recruit for football have more character issue that National Honor society members. Plus I am talking about all the minor cases that are swept under the rug. Of course with a major incident like that, they have no other recourse but to suspend them. But it is the nature of the type of recruits you have to go after if you want to have a successful program. I don't want to seem like I'm piling on the Vols. just look at Briles at Baylor. He took a player he knew committed a sexual assault at TCU and then denied knowing about it. It's all about the current win at any cost mentality of major college sports, especially football. Are you really insisting that none of the Vols recruits are thugs and that none of them were thugs before being recruited. It's what I meant by fans saying our players aren't thugs but yours are. How many incidents are swept under the rug? Don't you think that is why, just maybe, the lawsuits are occuring? Are we naive? You are already defending the school without hearing all the facts. Maybe the culture there is effed up. I just want the truth. Kinda like the Bill Cosby case. Are all these women complaining for no reason? I would think not. I want to know and think we have a right to know. Don't be offended, because I don't mean you personally, just the whole fanbase in general. Myself included. I've dismissed a lot of accusations, over the years, against Vols players as just sour grapes. Maybe i was wrong.

You know, I would agree with you that the type of young men recruited to play football at major universities are far more apt to be thugs than the general population of 18-year-olds. That isn't PC and some would even call it racist, but it is what it is. But there's a fine line between knowing that there will be a higher incidence of crimes committed within this pool of athletes and recruiting players who actually have questionable records. One is called potential, the other is called poor choices. The question goes back to whether there was any indication that a player like AJ Johnson was going to sexually assault a woman four years down the road. Obviously you nor I know everything about Johnson's high school days, but given that he was a model student-athlete for much of his time at Tennessee, I seriously doubt that was the case. You could argue that all schools should avoid this higher risk pool of student-athletes but would you rather play football in the SEC or in the Ivy League? You either recruit to compete or you recruit to be an also-ran. That's what separates Tennessee from Vanderbilt. But guess what? When Vanderbilt got serious about recruiting players who can win SEC ballgames, it found out very quickly what the consequences of that sometimes are. But, again, that doesn't mean that coaches are intentionally pursuing kids who they know are going to mess up down the road. Unless it's a situation like Baylor's, you just can't know that.

As for myself, you're wrong. I'm not defending Tennessee without knowing all the facts. I said early on that if the allegations of the lawsuit are proven true, the heads of those responsible should roll -- regardless of whose head it is. But as I said at that time and as I've said on this thread, all indications are that Butch Jones handled things the right way. I just don't know what you or anyone else would want Jones to do different. If there is some indication that he has acted wrongly, let's hear it. But broad-brushing and saying that Jones is guilty of fostering an atmosphere for sexual assaults because a player committed an alleged rape under his watch just doesn't cut it. Not in my book. If you see that as blindly defending the school, okay...but, by the same token, understand that you're blindly criticizing the school, based on a lawsuit by six women whose names none of us know in court documents that probably none of us have read. Myself, I want to wait and see the facts come out. But in the meantime I'm going to form my opinion based on appearances, and the appearance is that Butch Jones has not acted inappropriately.

[LouisVOL]

Why do we need law enforcement at all in this country?  Why don't we just identify potential trouble makers up front and not allow them into society?  Why do we allow family, friends, acquaintances, and co-workers of all those mass killers, serial killers, rapists, women beaters, and child abusers to go on TV and radio saying how surprised they are, nicest guy you could ever meet, good kid, no way he could do this?  They should have known, and they should shoulder part of the blame for not stopping such heinous acts based on their astute knowledge of humanity.  I have been on this board for 20 years, and this is without doubt the stupidest thread to which I have ever responded.  In fact, I already regret responding.  Please forgive me for having faith that most humans are decent, and for my failure at being able to clearly identify those who are not by doing a little research and being able to extrapolate future behavior. Apparently that is all that is needed to solve not just UT issue, but potentially all the world. 

Are you saying that none of these recruits character flaws were not known by the coaching staff. I am sure they research these guys and know exactly what they are getting. Of course that doesn't mean that they necessarily will get into trouble. But i would be certain that a student there on an academic scholarship would not have these same character issues and the odds are higher that the individuals we recruit for football have more character issue that National Honor society members. Plus I am talking about all the minor cases that are swept under the rug. Of course with a major incident like that, they have no other recourse but to suspend them. But it is the nature of the type of recruits you have to go after if you want to have a successful program. I don't want to seem like I'm piling on the Vols. just look at Briles at Baylor. He took a player he knew committed a sexual assault at TCU and then denied knowing about it. It's all about the current win at any cost mentality of major college sports, especially football. Are you really insisting that none of the Vols recruits are thugs and that none of them were thugs before being recruited. It's what I meant by fans saying our players aren't thugs but yours are. How many incidents are swept under the rug? Don't you think that is why, just maybe, the lawsuits are occuring? Are we naive? You are already defending the school without hearing all the facts. Maybe the culture there is effed up. I just want the truth. Kinda like the Bill Cosby case. Are all these women complaining for no reason? I would think not. I want to know and think we have a right to know. Don't be offended, because I don't mean you personally, just the whole fanbase in general. Myself included. I've dismissed a lot of accusations, over the years, against Vols players as just sour grapes. Maybe i was wrong.

[volsboy]

Why do we need law enforcement at all in this country?  Why don't we just identify potential trouble makers up front and not allow them into society?  Why do we allow family, friends, acquaintances, and co-workers of all those mass killers, serial killers, rapists, women beaters, and child abusers to go on TV and radio saying how surprised they are, nicest guy you could ever meet, good kid, no way he could do this?  They should have known, and they should shoulder part of the blame for not stopping such heinous acts based on their astute knowledge of humanity.  I have been on this board for 20 years, and this is without doubt the stupidest thread to which I have ever responded.  In fact, I already regret responding.  Please forgive me for having faith that most humans are decent, and for my failure at being able to clearly identify those who are not by doing a little research and being able to extrapolate future behavior. Apparently that is all that is needed to solve not just UT issue, but potentially all the world. 

People are already defending the school before all the investigation is over. What is that? I just have a hard time believing fans can tell me with a straight face that we never have and never will recruit thugs. Calling folks that have proven to be thugs, thugs is not racist. Sorry if facts offend some. I can't believe some believe these coaches have no knowledge of these kids history. Yet we gasp when one of them gets arrested. We will see how things play out. As for Jane Doe, if it was your daughter would you be all higher than mighty to have her name published? I think not. All this is not aimed at you specifically LouisVol, I just clicked on your quote. The truth will set you free.

[tshadow]

It cuts both ways... One would have to ask why you have such an opinion with a deficit of facts? That is a rhetorical question.