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Author Topic: While we may never know what Coach Jones said or didn't say to Bowles,  (Read 8527 times)
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Jean Voljean
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« on: February 25, 2016, 02:09:17 EST »

certain facts are easily discoverable if UT is serious about the truth.

1.  Did Bowles assist a woman who said that she had been raped?
2.  Was he assaulted by teammates for doing so?
3.  Did Coach Jones actually respond to this conflict by giving Bowles "time away from the team" instead of the people who objected to his actions?
4.  Did Coach Jones not take clear actions to address a hostile environment for a whistleblower?

If the answers to these questions are as indicated then I hope we would all insist on new leadership for the program or programs.

If UT is unwilling to treat these questions as critical to truthfully answer, then we the alumni should rise up in protest.
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PirateVOL
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2016, 02:22:02 EST »

certain facts are easily discoverable if UT is serious about the truth.

1.  Did Bowles assist a woman who said that she had been raped?
2.  Was he assaulted by teammates for doing so?
3.  Did Coach Jones actually respond to this conflict by giving Bowles "time away from the team" instead of the people who objected to his actions?
4.  Did Coach Jones not take clear actions to address a hostile environment for a whistleblower?

If the answers to these questions are as indicated then I hope we would all insist on new leadership for the program or programs.

If UT is unwilling to treat these questions as critical to truthfully answer, then we the alumni should rise up in protest.
Your post contains a number of assumptions.  The largest of which is that anyone on the hill is allowed to respond to any of the points in a public manner
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All men dream: but not equally.
Those who Dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds
Wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the
Dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they
May act their dream with open eyes, to make it Possible.
This I did.
—T. E. Lawrence,
The Seven Pillars of Wisdom
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." - David Hackworth

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet"
General James "Mad Dog" Mattis
Jean Voljean
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2016, 02:33:15 EST »

Your post contains a number of assumptions.  The largest of which is that anyone on the hill is allowed to respond to any of the points in a public manner

I thought I mainly had questions, which yes, can reasonably be answered.

And if the Chancellor, President and Athletic Director are unwilling to stick their necks out and not go with the lawyers' advice to circle the wagons and defend, defend, defend, then they are unworthy of their positions.  I do not buy your apparent argument that no one has the authority to do what is right.

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tshadow
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2016, 02:45:16 EST »

The article in the Tennessean says that Butch apologized to Bowles later that day in which case we may be hyperanalyzing Butch. I can see where he would tell the team to stay away from Bowles in an attempt to prevent further incidents and not as an affront to the kid. How people not present during Butch's discussion of the events with bowles define the events is irrelevant. The kids implicated in the "alleged" assault were summarily dismissed from the team with the charges and who was it that did that? Let's remember this is NOT Bowles suit. He did not bring charges. Maybe he should have. If he did we would see how Butch handled that but we cannot lend the same weight to our imaginations as we do the facts.
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10EC
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2016, 03:26:38 EST »

The article in the Tennessean says that Butch apologized to Bowles later that day in which case we may be hyperanalyzing Butch. I can see where he would tell the team to stay away from Bowles in an attempt to prevent further incidents and not as an affront to the kid. How people not present during Butch's discussion of the events with bowles define the events is irrelevant. The kids implicated in the "alleged" assault were summarily dismissed from the team with the charges and who was it that did that? Let's remember this is NOT Bowles suit. He did not bring charges. Maybe he should have. If he did we would see how Butch handled that but we cannot lend the same weight to our imaginations as we do the facts.

I am confused... I thought Bowles said he was only "verbally" accosted.  Now he was physically?

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tshadow
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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2016, 03:41:38 EST »

I am confused... I thought Bowles said he was only "verbally" accosted.  Now he was physically?



That is what I thought as well. But, I have been reading conflicting reports (or bad reporting).
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volsboy
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2016, 06:12:03 EST »

There are a lot of assumptions around this case so far. A lot are quick to blame Bowles. But just think if he was your kid, would you be so flippant about accusing him about this being a revenge type deal. I would be pissed if he was my kid and his supposedly mature coach called him a traitor. Jones allegedly apologized right after the incident, so that tells me he did say something he shouldn't have. If it is the truth. The truth is a hard thing to find in todays world.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2016, 06:41:39 EST »

And Ohio State got a bowl ban over tattoo's. What is this crap going to bring us? Plus, I don't see Jones getting his reputation back no matter what the outcome.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 07:17:28 EST »

And Ohio State got a bowl ban over tattoo's. What is this crap going to bring us? Plus, I don't see Jones getting his reputation back no matter what the outcome.

This is not an NCAA matter, regardless the outcome of the lawsuit. Period.
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Tnphil
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« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2016, 07:28:27 EST »

This is not an NCAA matter, regardless the outcome of the lawsuit. Period.

^This
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volsboy
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2016, 07:56:00 EST »

This is not an NCAA matter, regardless the outcome of the lawsuit. Period.
Neither was Penn State's issues. Not that these are equal charges.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2016, 08:05:41 EST »

Neither was Penn State's issues. Not that these are equal charges.

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Live Orange
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2016, 09:52:02 EST »

So I guess this is what CBJ means when he says that Bowles' own words would exonerate him: https://twitter.com/ClowESPN/status/702723835238465536
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 09:53:43 EST by Live Orange » Logged
Volznut
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2016, 09:53:05 EST »

Neither was Penn State's issues. Not that these are equal charges.

NCAA rescinded those charges vs Penn State
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PirateVOL
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« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2016, 11:11:14 EST »

There are a lot of assumptions around this case so far. A lot are quick to blame Bowles. But just think if he was your kid, would you be so flippant about accusing him about this being a revenge type deal. I would be pissed if he was my kid and his supposedly mature coach called him a traitor. Jones allegedly apologized right after the incident, so that tells me he did say something he shouldn't have. If it is the truth. The truth is a hard thing to find in todays world.
a lot blame Bowles because like TE Faulkner criminal accusing the Duke lacrosse team his story changes with the wind ...
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All men dream: but not equally.
Those who Dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds
Wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the
Dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they
May act their dream with open eyes, to make it Possible.
This I did.
—T. E. Lawrence,
The Seven Pillars of Wisdom
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." - David Hackworth

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet"
General James "Mad Dog" Mattis
volsboy
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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2016, 12:02:19 EST »

a lot blame Bowles because like TE Faulkner criminal accusing the Duke lacrosse team his story changes with the wind ...
You are correct. Recruiting is going to be affected no matter the outcome, especially women's sports.
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volsboyinsodak
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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2016, 03:56:43 EST »

You are correct. Recruiting is going to be affected no matter the outcome, especially women's sports.

So, let us know how Bama will fair this year, you seem to be an SME
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11B4PJ3F7
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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2016, 03:58:37 EST »

So, let us know how Bama will fair this year, you seem to be an SME
i think referred to the poster in question in his presser this afternoon ...
« Last Edit: February 26, 2016, 06:04:27 EST by PirateVOL » Logged





All men dream: but not equally.
Those who Dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds
Wake in the day to find that it was vanity; but the
Dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they
May act their dream with open eyes, to make it Possible.
This I did.
—T. E. Lawrence,
The Seven Pillars of Wisdom
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly." - David Hackworth

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet"
General James "Mad Dog" Mattis
tshadow
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« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2016, 06:13:33 EST »

It is an assumption that an apology from CBJ automatically incriminates him. You have two children that come to you each blaming the other for breaking your antique Vase... Who do you believe? As long as they are fighting it does not matter. You act to protect both and then do your fact finding. Your position may change as the facts come out... It is STUPID!!!!!, STUPID to expect CBJ to react based upon the facts he did not yet have. People calling for CBJ's job are the ones making the assumptions.
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SmokeyJoe
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« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2016, 07:39:10 EST »

certain facts are easily discoverable if UT is serious about the truth.

1.  Did Bowles assist a woman who said that she had been raped?
2.  Was he assaulted by teammates for doing so?
3.  Did Coach Jones actually respond to this conflict by giving Bowles "time away from the team" instead of the people who objected to his actions?
4.  Did Coach Jones not take clear actions to address a hostile environment for a whistleblower?

If the answers to these questions are as indicated then I hope we would all insist on new leadership for the program or programs.

If UT is unwilling to treat these questions as critical to truthfully answer, then we the alumni should rise up in protest.
I absolutely cannot believe the sex assault crap is specific to UT. If the lawsuit is primarily based on the AJ Johnson incident, my understanding is that was a frikkin gang bang gone wrong. I'm sorry, and I understand "no means no" but these women (no matter how young and impressionable) are NOT as pure as the driven snow, and possibly are very dangerous people themselves! I would say many people would be shocked at what goes on with athletes & women. Sinful!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
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HerbTarlekVol
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« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2016, 07:55:51 EST »

I absolutely cannot believe the sex assault crap is specific to UT. If the lawsuit is primarily based on the AJ Johnson incident, my understanding is that was a frikkin gang bang gone wrong. I'm sorry, and I understand "no means no" but these women (no matter how young and impressionable) are NOT as pure as the driven snow, and possibly are very dangerous people themselves! I would say many people would be shocked at what goes on with athletes & women. Sinful!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

It's not specific to UT.  There are some 95 similar suits in the system right now filed against colleges and universities nationwide.  UT just seems to be the highest profile case right now because not only does it involved the university, but a high profile athletics department, as well. 

I'm erring on the side of caution right now in opining one way or the other.  I will admit that I am biased, because I have had some contact with Drae Bowles through an organization that we both have been involved as a volunteer with.  I hate the way the kid is being trashed, and there is some really bad info being put out on the interwebz about him that he can't respond to because of the lawsuit. 

And on the other side, the Debbie Jennings of the world need to STFU.  She, and others who are behind much of this, have ridden the gravy train for long enough and been overpaid for way too long as it is, and their trying to "get even" with Dave Hart is going to hurt the thing they supposedly love - UT womens athletics - in the end more than help the situation.  They are biting the hand that fed them and still feeds womens athletics at UT. 

And like I have said before, whenever something like this happens there are two sides, and the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.  If there are violators - no matter which side they are on - I simply want the truth to come out, no matter who has to pay the price for their involvement. 
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