Our "luck" with West teams

[BanditVol]

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/calc-wp.pl?start=1869&end=2015&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct


We are 10th in all time winning percentage in the NCAA standings.  8-4 is really not that bad actually. By which I mean our overall win percentage is 0.680.  If you apply that to a regular season of 12 games, then it does imply an 8-4 season.

However, only 6 teams are better historically than 8-4, and their average is 9-3.  Those teams are Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Oklahoma, and bammer, and Texas.  

In the next group of 8-4 teams are, in order:
 
   Southern Cal   
   Nebraska   
   Penn State   
   Tennessee   
   Florida State   
   Louisiana State   
   Georgia   
   Florida   
   Miami-Florida   
   Auburn

So there are only 16 teams that are 8-4 or better historically, and we are one of them.

If you count from when Neyland showed up, in 1926, we are 7th in win percentage and do average 9-3 for a 12 game season.

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/calc-wp.pl?start=1926&end=2015&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct



And volsboy, in your lifetime there are only a relative handful of programs that have won multiple titles.  Notre Dame, USC sr, bammer, OU, Nebraska, Texas, Miami, FSU, LSU, florida, and Ohio State.  And only a couple dozen have won a championship at all. (and LSU's second one should have an asterisk, because they backed into it with 2 losses).

Bottom line.  We are an elite program, though not quite top five, but good enough to be in the top 10.

[SmokeyJoe]

LSU has eroded gradually post Saban. Texas has multiple? Notre Dame's getting a bit dusty, not sure Nebraska, or OU will ever get back to Switzer/what's his name status.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[SmokeyJoe]

Nice post Bandit. Any knucklehead has access to the info. I still lean to volsboy being a bamer.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Tnphil]

Some younger Fans forget there was a time when we played only 10 games.....8-2 back then was as good as 10-2 today a lot of years.

[SmokeyJoe]

Nice post Bandit. Any knucklehead has access to the info. I still lean to volsboy being a bamer.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Doesn't volsboy claim to be a native of the tri-state area(ky-tn-va)? He could well be ky. Nobody loves to needle & nitpic UT like a uk loser.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[PirateVOL]

Doesn't volsboy claim to be a native of the tri-state area(ky-tn-va)? He could well be ky. Nobody loves to needle & nitpic UT like a uk loser.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Tennessee High I think

[volsboy]

Bristol Tennessee High School for your info. But it seems these schools are in the national title conversation more consistently than UT. A lot of them have played for a bunch of title games that they didn't win as well. Not a big deal. Don't get your Jimmies rustled.

[volsboy]

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/calc-wp.pl?start=1869&end=2015&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct


We are 10th in all time winning percentage in the NCAA standings.  8-4 is really not that bad actually. By which I mean our overall win percentage is 0.680.  If you apply that to a regular season of 12 games, then it does imply an 8-4 season.

However, only 6 teams are better historically than 8-4, and their average is 9-3.  Those teams are Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Oklahoma, and bammer, and Texas.  

In the next group of 8-4 teams are, in order:
 
   Southern Cal   
   Nebraska   
   Penn State   
   Tennessee   
   Florida State   
   Louisiana State   
   Georgia   
   Florida   
   Miami-Florida   
   Auburn

So there are only 16 teams that are 8-4 or better historically, and we are one of them.

If you count from when Neyland showed up, in 1926, we are 7th in win percentage and do average 9-3 for a 12 game season.

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/calc-wp.pl?start=1926&end=2015&rpct=30&min=5&se=on&by=Win+Pct



And volsboy, in your lifetime there are only a relative handful of programs that have won multiple titles.  Notre Dame, USC sr, bammer, OU, Nebraska, Texas, Miami, FSU, LSU, florida, and Ohio State.  And only a couple dozen have won a championship at all. (and LSU's second one should have an asterisk, because they backed into it with 2 losses).

Bottom line.  We are an elite program, though not quite top five, but good enough to be in the top 10.

Good post. But a lot of these programs have been consistently in the title hunt year after year. The Vols have been in it, what 3-4 times total. Of course the Vols are one of the all-time winningest programs. But for the most part it goes in cycles. You just can't have 10-12 game losing streaks to two teams on your schedule every year and expect to contend for titles. It is time for the Vols to start some winning streaks against UF and Bama. 

[Creek Walker]

Apparently the issue is you don't understand what "being in the title hunt" really means.

Three or four times for Tennessee? Really?

How many times in the '90s was Tennessee not in the title hunt?

[SmokeyJoe]

Good post. But a lot of these programs have been consistently in the title hunt year after year. The Vols have been in it, what 3-4 times total. Of course the Vols are one of the all-time winningest programs. But for the most part it goes in cycles. You just can't have 10-12 game losing streaks to two teams on your schedule every year and expect to contend for titles. It is time for the Vols to start some winning streaks against UF and Bama. 

Yes there are better programs than UT. K? You got winner written ALL OVER YOU BOY. You wreak of elite level! In all phases!!!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[BanditVol]

Apparently the issue is you don't understand what "being in the title hunt" really means.

Three or four times for Tennessee? Really?

How many times in the '90s was Tennessee not in the title hunt?

We likely play for it all in 96 without the loss to Memphis.  In 95, only Florida stood between us.

In 1997, we had a shot at the title actually.  Had we beaten Nebraska and Michigan lost to Washington State, we likely split it with Washington State.  Neither happened though.

In 1990, one less tie or avoid the stupid loss to bammer, and we likely win it all.  In 2001, a close loss to LSU in the SECCG kept us out.

From 1990 to 2001, a span of 12 years, we were very much "in the hunt" at least 5 times (you could make a case for 93 also I think) and won it once.  It's hard to do better than that, although both FSU and Nebraska did in that same span, and arguably Florida.  But we were up there with them.

[BanditVol]

Good post. But a lot of these programs have been consistently in the title hunt year after year. The Vols have been in it, what 3-4 times total. Of course the Vols are one of the all-time winningest programs. But for the most part it goes in cycles. You just can't have 10-12 game losing streaks to two teams on your schedule every year and expect to contend for titles. It is time for the Vols to start some winning streaks against UF and Bama. 

It depends.  Nebraska was in it constantly in the 80s (but always got blown out in bowls) and 90s (recruited more speed), but where are they today?  Miami was a powerhouse in the late 80s/early 90s but after winning another one in 2001, have been down quite a while.  Michigan won one in the 90s, but have paralleled us recently (almost eerie how the fortunes of our two teams are similar).  Texas did great mid-00s, but look at them now.  USC sr was the dominant team of the early 2000s, now they are shizzle.  And so forth.

Every team goes in cycles.  Even bammer pre-saban sucked.

And I have said it before, and will say it again, without their "unexplainable" recruiting success, they would not be all that, with or without saban.

But speaking of cycles, let's hope this is the early phase of a major "up" cycle for the Vols. 

[Creek Walker]

We likely play for it all in 96 without the loss to Memphis.  In 95, only Florida stood between us.

In 1997, we had a shot at the title actually.  Had we beaten Nebraska and Michigan lost to Arizona State, we likely split it with Arizona State.  Neither happened though.

In 1990, one less tie or avoid the stupid loss to bammer, and we likely win it all.  In 2001, a close loss to LSU in the SECCG kept us out.

From 1990 to 2001, a span of 12 years, we were very much "in the hunt" at least 5 times (you could make a case for 93 also I think) and won it once.  It's hard to do better than that, although both FSU and Nebraska did in that same span, and arguably Florida.  But we were up there with them.

Oh, I think UT was in the hunt more than 5 times in that span. In 1990, we tied No. Colorado (which ultimately won the national championship) and tied No. 3 Auburn, and rolled No. 9 Florida 45-3. We headed into the 3rd Saturday of October with a 4-0-2 record and ranked No. 3 in the country. We were clearly in the national championship hunt as the second half of the season began. That 9-6 loss to an unranked Bama team still ranks right up there as one of the most gut-wrenching Tennessee loses ever. We might've still worked our way back into the hunt if we find a way to pull off the game against Notre Dame.

In 1991 we beat three ranked teams in a row (No. 21 UCLA, No. 23 Mississippi State and No. 13 Auburn) and rolled into the Florida game as the No. 4 team in the nation at 4-0. We lost that one, then somehow lost that game to Alabama, which knocked us out of the hunt but we were a legitimate national title contender that season as well.

I don't know how much we really deserved to say we were "in the hunt" in 1992, but when you destroy a Top 5 team the way we destroyed Florida in the downpour at Neyland Stadium, you're going to get some national championship talk. I don't think that was a great Tennessee team, but we were still ranked No. 4 heading into the Arkansas game.

In 1993, we were a preseason Top 10 team and if not for letting Alabama somehow weasel back and tie the game, who knows where we're at at the end of the season? We were No. 6 going into the Citrus Bowl debacle against Penn State. We might've well been 3rd or 4th (going into the bowl game) despite the loss to UF. And No. 1 lost on New Year's Day, btw.

In 1995, we were obviously very much in the title hunt before losing to Florida and climbed back into the race even after that. If Florida had lost the SECCG to Arkansas or even lost the Florida State game, we would've gotten to face Nebraska in the Fiesta Bowl for the national championship. As it was, we were No. 3 and relegated to the Citrus Bowl vs. tOSU.

In 1996, as you mention, we had managed to climb very much back into the hunt until that Memphis debacle. As it turned out, we wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to play for the MNC, but that's hindsight...nobody knew that on Nov. 9 before we laid an egg at Memphis.

In 1997, as you say, we're very much in the hunt. We're No. 3, facing No. 2 Nebraska, and No. 1 Michigan has No. 8 Washington State in the Rose Bowl. If we beat Nebraska and WashSt beats the Wolverines, we're the national champs. And WashSt almost pulled off its end of the bargain. Unfortunately we didn't even come close. That game still angers me, remembering the camera shots of our guys on the sideline horse playing while we were getting boat raced in the second half. To me, that was the game that signified that Fulmer's teams had discipline issues, and they almost always did after that.

In 1999, if we don't lose to Arkansas, we're right on the cusp of returning to the BCSNCG. As it turned out, we wouldn't have gotten in, because Florida State and Virginia Tech remained undefeated and claimed those top two spots. Our loss to UF would've cost us and we'd have been 3rd. But, again, that's hindsight. VaTech played a ranked Boston College team in the final game of the regular season and could've easily lost. Florida almost knocked off Florida State. (And while that might have put the Gators ahead of us in the BCS standings at that point, remember that they lost the SECCG to Alabama that year.)

So I'm not sure where in the world volsboy comes up with the notion that Tennessee has only been in the national title hunt 3-4 times in his lifetime. We were in the national title hunt at least 7 out of 10 years in the '90s alone, and you could make a strong argument that we were in the hunt 8 out of 10 times. And then add '01 to that mix as well.

[BanditVol]

Well, I don't count 91 because we lost to both bammer and florida that year.  I only count years where we were 'in the hunt" relatively late in the year.  But agree with most other points.

1999 may count, but I tend to discount years we ended up with 3 losses.  It's true we were in until late in the year, but ultimately I think it's my disappointment with the loss to Florida that year.  If I ever were to blame a loss on coaching, that would be it.  Four times Alex Brown (I think?) sacked Tee Martin.  I was in graduate school at Purdue at the time, and in spite of it being a top 5 matchup I had to listen to it on the radio.  I will never forget Tim Priest saying after the third sack "you might think the coaches would put in an extra TE or fullback to stop Alex Brown". 

Yeah, you might think!  But RS was already in over his head.  Then he calls a stupid TOSS SWEEP on 4th and game.  After the game he states "I may not know much about football, but I know you don't throw over the middle late in the game".

Um...hello Einstein!  Its not "late in the game", it IS the fizzleing game!  Who cares if Tee Martin throws a pick on 4th and 3?   A stop is as good as an int!

 

I still get fired up thinking about that one.  Shoulda woulda coulda put two in a row on the gaytors.   

[tshadow]

Being in the hunt is subjective phraseology. What I remember is the same vehicle that pushed Heisman talk pushed Championship press. The narrative of Sec dominance is a fairly recent phenomena. Any lack of consideration of UT as contender was lost in a northern press bias. I remember we as fans had to remind everyone to take a look at our resume since they continued to fail to do it themselves. The year we played colorado to a tie was a prime example.

[BanditVol]

Being in the hunt is subjective phraseology. What I remember is the same vehicle that pushed Heisman talk pushed Championship press. The narrative of Sec dominance is a fairly recent phenomena. Any lack of consideration of UT as contender was lost in a northern press bias. I remember we as fans had to remind everyone to take a look at our resume since they continued to fail to do it themselves. The year we played colorado to a tie was a prime example.

I remember in 89 we unexpectedly opened with 5-6 wins then played bammer. I believe we were no. 7 at the time and they were 1 or 2.  But we got no respect. No one expected us to win, and we didn't, and we dropped down to 13 or 14 afterwards.   We did get respect in 90, we were no. 3 when we lost to bammer.  .  But 1991 was the same ole, same ole. We only had one loss against bammer going in to that game, but no one gave us a chance and we dropped out of the top 10 again.   We were rated highly in 92 then lost to a winless Arkansas in a game that really ended Johnny Majors career at UT.  1993, still not much respect.

Honestly, I think it was the combo of Peyton being our QB and the 41-14 ass whipping of bammer in 1995 that finally got us the respect in the rankings.  After that, we were typically highly ranked, maybe even more than we deserved, until well into the next decade.

Still no one took us seriously as an NC contender...until 1998.